[FIXED] [General][pvp] Melee weapon damage

[raven3]

I don't know exactly why but melee damage scales too much with item level or with the artifact weapon.

For starters artifact weapon melee damage in arena should set be in the template
https://twitter.com/holinka/status/778063779229687808

Quote:

Holinka‏Verified account @holinka Follow More Replying to @Nexxynex @WarcraftDevs Weapon damage is set in the template but if you have examples to the contrary please let us know.

What I think this means is that the artifact ilvl should be set at a fix value like the rest of the gear. So if you have a 800 artifact weapon, as a melee class it should have the same ilvl and autoattack damage like a 900 ilvl artifact weapon inside arena.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749045355

Quote:

I realize gear is scaled, so everyone's on the same playing field. Is that the same for artifact weapons? Nothing is scaled. Pvp has a template of stats and then every ilvl beyond 800 increases your power by 0.1%.

Quote:

Hi, i was wondering whats the ilvl impact of ur artifact in pvp instances? Does it also get templated from a dmg point of view just like the other stats are templated. What counts with the artifact besides traits in pvp? Traits and honor talents are more important than your weapon's individual item level. Your weapon's item level only contributes to your regular item level in terms of the stat template.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/619na8/does_artifact_ilvl_on_weapon_matter_in_pvp_740/

Quote:

Yes or no. My brother is saying that a 740 ilvl weapon will have the same dmg as 890 inside arenas. All that matters for ilvl in instanced pvp is your overall avg ilvl. Which does include your weapon ilvl. But someone with overall 850 and a 750 weapon does the same as someone with overall 850 and an 890 weapon.

Right now, weapon damage increases a lot with gear and I don't think it should
I did some tests.
As a demon hunter
With 813 ilvl and 847ilvl weapon, my melee damage with 15% increase from solitude is 16982 - 20141 in the char sheet
http://imgur.com/a/ZgqVZ

I asked a demon hunter to tell me using the dejacharacterstats addon his weapon damage with templates.
At 865 ilvl and 878 artifact his weapon damage with 15% increase from solitude is 19070- 23288

the difference in ilvl from 813 to 865 should only provide a 5% increase in stats .. but the increase in melee dmg is ~15%. I don't think that's right.


Another thing that I noticed was the min-max weapon damage and the min-max abilities dmg in pvp.
I did a test on pvp dummy and chaos strike has a very big range of damage
like my min was 80+70k and my max was 100+80k
When I'm watching blizz videos the range in which abilities behave in identical circumstances is very narrow.

I found this post interesting regarding weapon damage
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17615601539

Quote:

Numbers I get with 897 Arms Warri: AP=30237 MinDamage=63269 MaxDamage=63269 Modifier=1.4228 So the first thing that jumps right into my eyes are the damage numbers. They are identical in Pvp! What a surprise.

So the guy came to the conclusion that in pvp min dmg and max dmg are the same.

And that average item lvl doesn't affect weapon damage

Quote:

Now let's calculate the WeaponDamage with the formula from above. (I skip this part since time is money friend...) WeaponDamage= 13367 So now that we have the weapon damage in pvp for 897 average ilvl, the next step will be figuring out the influence of average ilvl. Therefore I buy some green items in our beloved auction house to bring it down to 883. Some Numbers with 883 (Altough they are different than before I won't post all of them to safe some time): AP=29867 (So the part with 0.1% more stats per ailvl seems to be true) WeaponDamage=13367 Now compare that number with the one above with 897. They are identical. Average Item Level doesn't seem to affect the Template Weapon Damage.

Also another interesting thing..
When I put instead of my artifact two blue 685 weapons ... my min and max weapon damage with pvp templates were almost the same.
https://imgur.com/a/P3Z6f

also notice that with 685 ilvl weapons and 793 overall ilvl, my weapon damage is 15148 - 15917 (with 15% from solitude and 10% from Demonic origins) while with 847 weapons and 813 ilvl my weapon damage is 16900 - 20000 (with solitude but without demonic origins)

[Ozzydany]

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748988342
you can see on pg nr 3

Quote:

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/778063779229687808?lang=en Confirmed bug by Holinka yesterday. It's not intended.

Quote:

Holinka: Actual damage done is based on average item level not weapon ilevel.

[raven3]

Ozzydany wrote:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20748988342 you can see on pg nr 3 Quote: https://twitter.com/holinka/status/778063779229687808?lang=en Confirmed bug by Holinka yesterday. It's not intended. Quote: Holinka: Actual damage done is based on average item level not weapon ilevel.

yep
What made me notice this is that in a bg I had 800 ilvl and a demon hunter with 880 ilvl was doing ~ 50% stranger chaos strikes.
I had the chaos strike traits from the artifact and had the demonic origins and solitude.. so I wondered where was that extra damage coming from

[Ozzydany]

Proof :819 ilvl http://imgur.com/a/wztzf weapon dps
887 ilvl http://imgur.com/a/HEH35 weapon dps
We need to found the numbers for every spec because we had on server all formulas based on PVE weapon dmg in PVP where should be a standard weapon dmg for every class based on total ilvl of the character .

[raven3]

I did the test : same general ilvl but different artifact ilvl.

With 827 overall ilvl 856 weapon ilvl , solitude and demonic origins I had 19223 - 23002 weapon damge.
Unfortunately I forgot to print screen this but I got the values on paper.

Then I upgraded my weapon to 866 and used some items to lower my overall ilvl back to 827

So with 827 overall ilvl and 866 weapon ilvl, solitude and demonic origins I had 19654 - 23803

So it's a clear increase from weapon ilvl .. and it shouln't be.

Edit*
I upgraded my weapon again to 874 ilvl..
After lowering my overall ilvl to 827 , my weapon damage is 20029 - 24500

[Quicksand]

Okay, so I have made several modifications, I spent my whole night rewriting the whole system / gathering info from retail.

So how it will work after the patch: weapon damage will be included in templates (this means there will be a basic value for each weapon that is granted as damage, and no matter if you have iLvl 750 or 950 artifact, they will give the same amount of damage => iLvl increase still counts towards the "big picture" so as the artifact gets higher item level, the weapon damage will still change, but not from 16k to 45k, which is just ridiculous, the extremities will completely disappear, there will be a more controlled growth: you'll start from more than 16k, which favors lower iLvl players, but you won't be able to get nowhere near 45k as you can do it right now, since that's where I get on retail in 7.3, lol, and it's legit doable with a 910 fury artifact).

This also ensures that if someone has Average Item Level 880, it does not matter if you achieved that iLvl with 750 artifact or 900. Someone with AvgILvl 880 and iLvl 750 artifact will have the same weapon damage as someone with AvgILvl 880 and iLvl 900 artifact.
This theory can easily be confirmed on retail, even I managed to see it.

Also, since the "mastery" fix, we now have the possibility to work with decimals, that is getting from 888 to 889 will still feel rewarding in PvP, because you get that 0.1% increase in all stats before you got it only every 10 levels.

This fix won't get applied just now, there is still a bit of testing needed, I'd say sometime tomorrow maybe

Oh, and needless to say, it will fix https://forum.wow-freakz.com/General-PvP-Weapon-Dmg-Exploit-t487162.html as well

[raven3]

Great.
Now I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this might fix our problems with brutal slash and other abilities that are doing too much dmg right now.
Hoping this will be like 100 birds with one stone

[Foxed]

You did a really nice job finding this

https://www.freakz.ro/forum/achievement-Unique-a176.html

[Ozzydany]

Im curious about something , in the past , you fixed some spells not from original formula but to improvise the dmg from blizz ? , so the dmg on some spells might be lower after this fix ?

Other thing , you said on https://forum.wow-freakz.com/Druid-Feral-Shred-damage-vs-PvP-t469580.html :

Quote:

I have around 13k weapon damage. Coefficient is 695%, that is 90350. With 9.81% versa, we get to 99213. Then we add 20% for bleeds, 119055. Now we add 15% from Feral Instinct, that's 136913. Incarnation makes it use as from stealth, that's 50% bonus damage: 205370. Tiger's Fury another 15% => 236176. 1 Stack of King of the Jungle => 245623. Shredded Fangs (basic artifact trait, gives +15% shred damage) => 282467. Give this a 1.5x crit => 423700. As a 840 mage, I have around 15% armor => ~360k. This is if we roll with the lowest weapon damage (it's a random number between mindamage and maxdamage, my maxdamage is around 14k, which would be a total of 8% increase, getting a max of 390k crit). I am not really sure how bugged it is. In this case we didn't even take into consideration Bloodtalons (that'd be +50%, meaning almost 600k with crit). There is nothing wrong with the server-side calculations, no weird numbers show up while following the calculations. It might be a missing pvp modifier, but I doubt it. I have made it "normalized weapon damage", so it got a bit lower, but nothing significant. Make your own calculations, damage is more than possible. The only thing that could explain it is the pvp modifier, since templates are correct.

If this will be fixed you think feral will do normal dmg on shred ? I'm asking because this is the most game changing thing found yet.

[Quicksand]

Most spells that have "Weapon Pct Damage" will get way lower. We'll see how it goes after the fix, as nothing is written in stone regarding the weapon templates (I have a really-really strong feeling of what's happening on retail, I was datamining all day yesterday), but even 99% sure isn't 100%. I'll rely on your feedback once it goes live

And as far as I know, I said only theoretically that I could reduce the damage output of a spell if we don't find the cause. I don't remember actually changing anything, so no, nothing should be lower than expected

[Magicqtz]

Quicksand wrote:

Most spells that have "Weapon Pct Damage" will get way lower. We'll see how it goes after the fix, as nothing is written in stone regarding the weapon templates (I have a really-really strong feeling of what's happening on retail, I was datamining all day yesterday), but even 99% sure isn't 100%. I'll rely on your feedback once it goes live And as far as I know, I said only theoretically that I could reduce the damage output of a spell if we don't find the cause. I don't remember actually changing anything, so no, nothing should be lower than expected

After restart/crash, we expect this to be live?

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/sylvanas/mostfckedup

[Quicksand]

No, still not yet. Most probably it will come only with the next scheduled restart (in case you didn't know, there is a scheduled restart each day at 5:45 AM server time). Forgive me, but I don't want to rush anything, it is a huge change, I would like to ensure that we break less things than we fix

[Quicksand]

@raven3 @Ozzydany any of you available atm?

[Ozzydany]

Quicksand wrote:

@raven3 @Ozzydany any of you available atm?

yes , deadinside ingame

[Quicksand]

Ozzydany wrote:

Quicksand wrote: @raven3 @Ozzydany any of you available atm? yes , deadinside ingame

discord please