PvE raid lockouts - open discussion

brekan · Posted: 05-04-2018, 17:28:45 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Its been a big problem always for people who want to have a propper progress in raid. The idea of not having boss ID is absurd, because anyway the ID is there.. you have the boss in front of you once again, every day, but what a surprise,,, you receive any loot.. so what is the point of not of having killing ID?

So option 2 must be implemented, people want to have guild progression and want to be able to kill as many bosses every week, not killing the same ones 300 times...
That is why some of us play PvE, to kill bosses...

Also, please, I beg.. Bosses lifes are way to high... I now for sure their lifes should not be so much. That should be fixed as soon as possible too, people are doing their best to kill boses but in some cases it is impossible.. too much life they have. It is insane you need to be almost 900 item level to be able to kill Nighthold Hc and mythic.

Thereckless · Posted: 05-04-2018, 17:44:18 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Option 2 is the way a pve lookalike guild has to point on. I mean it's reckless that you have to face over and over the same bosses while you can't loot. The best way to let Everyone be Happy are:
Teleports in order to reach Plaza/elisande (only After archievement)
Put id in heroic mode while leaving normal as it's now

pincha · Posted: 05-04-2018, 18:22:06 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

I vote for the second option. I'm tired of having to kill the same bosses every day of the week because they do not keep ID. So you can not advance in a raid of 10 bosses.

In my opinion I will not play again until it is modified, it does not make sense to raid with this method.

Another point to correct is the life of the Bosses, the raids are adaptable to the number of players, with 10 players in band the bosses have twice the life they should have, which requires to make groups of 30 people to facilitate the game.

andresrdrgz · Posted: 05-04-2018, 18:53:21 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Guilds are getting sicked of having to kill the same 3 bosses each day which is such a waste of time, most of Wow-Freakz guild members are from all over the globe and schedule a date to raid is a headache.

I hope you understand that 2nd option is the way to go, PvE guilds are getting bored of the NON-Binding system .

We are willing to keep supporting the server where we met many good friends.

erzak · Posted: 05-04-2018, 19:03:51 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

We need option 2 without "Only raid group cd" and need adaptable checkpoints for beat bosses.
NH have a lot of boss and cant be beaten in 2-3 hours for 895-905 ilvl ppl... We need that checkpoints and leader personal saves for doing raid progress.

WarningG · Posted: 05-04-2018, 19:14:42 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

In my opinion best way is to find middle for first and second choice. For example, we can leave "LOOT CD". Add "RAID CD" and give to all ppl command to reset "RAID CD". In result you can leave your cd, and next day go for last bosses. But who want to run again same boss, for example to TRAIN your skill. They can reset cooldown for that.

Shocker

It seems there are a lot of controversial oppinions unfortunately

we'll keep this topic open for a few more days to see more reactions

WarningG wrote:

For example, we can leave "LOOT CD". Add "RAID CD" and give to all ppl command to reset "RAID CD".

This might actually be a good idea, binding everyone to a specific lockout but also allowing everyone to reset their lockout if they really want that

P.S.: I initially forgot to mention (but you probably already know this): with the old mop system you will be able to invite NEW players to your current lockout if they don't have any CD yet, you just won't be able to invite players with different lockouts.

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WarningG · Posted: 05-04-2018, 20:00:46 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Shocker wrote:

It seems there are a lot of controversial oppinions unfortunately

we'll keep this topic open for a few more days to see more reactions

WarningG wrote:

For example, we can leave "LOOT CD". Add "RAID CD" and give to all ppl command to reset "RAID CD".

This might actually be a good idea, binding everyone to a specific lockout but also allowing everyone to reset their lockout if they really want that

P.S.: I initially forgot to mention (but you probably already know this): with the old mop system you will be able to invite NEW players to your current lockout if they don't have any CD yet, you just won't be able to invite players with different lockouts.

I know about what I am able to invite. Btw, I invite some ppl, first bosses they was good, but after trillax(for example) they got dc and dont come back. From this moment will be difficult to invite new ppl's who will accept to run with you and "leave" loot from first bosses.
Second case: For example I want to go elisande. Found raid in premade join. After 3 pull's they disband raid. And what now? I have CD and lost one week CD

DoesMyNameMatter · Posted: 05-04-2018, 20:01:18 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

If raid cds go back to cata and mop , then there will be no more pug groups almost at all besides the ones that big guilds make sometimes . Who would want to risk doing a raid with random people that will probably only kill 3 bosses and then ~5 people decide they wanna leave . Nobody will want to join a raid that's already started for obvious reasons , and raid will probably be over . And so they'll get screwed for the rest of the week instead of being able to join another group

tonchoplayswow · Posted: 05-04-2018, 20:04:18 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

I vote for the first option and I will also add a con for it since it isn't mentioned in shockeru's post. You do your guild run on friday or saturday or whatever, get the loot and then with the second option you are done for the week. You can't do that raid again. But with the first option you can go and do that as many times as you want granting you entertainment, something to do other than afk in class hall and farming for legendary items. Two major arguments have been written here and unfortunately both make sense. The first said that going with option 2. will help smaller guilds progress with heroic. I agree with that but it will also hurt bigger guilds and more geared players who want to grind raids all week for the reasons I listed above. I agree the best option would be to implement the old cd on heroic and leave normal as it is now.

kzm · Posted: 05-04-2018, 20:19:09 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Shocker wrote:

It seems there are a lot of controversial oppinions unfortunately

we'll keep this topic open for a few more days to see more reactions

WarningG wrote:

For example, we can leave "LOOT CD". Add "RAID CD" and give to all ppl command to reset "RAID CD".

This might actually be a good idea, binding everyone to a specific lockout but also allowing everyone to reset their lockout if they really want that

I also think this idea is good.

Brigadee · Last edited by Brigadee on 06-04-2018, 01:03:17; edited 1 time in total

@Shocker, with all my respect, that's the worst decision ever if you are going to use lock-out on hc and normal. Please read the following.

First.
Think about, premade groups are a big succes on your server at this moment. If you set lock-out on normal or heroic, premade groups will collapse.
People will stop joining the low ilvl required ones, and the ones who will create premade will ask for high ilvl and low geared ppl ( @ 890ilvl ) wont join via premade group on ages. People wont join low required premade groups cause they will have next attitude: " low ilvl, they will kill first boss and wipe on others, so i will get lock-out only for 1 boss and not being able to kill other bosses for the rest of the week." This will happen for sure.

This would be a good idea IF IF the scaling would be fixed once for ever and perfect, cause atm, low guilds with 10-20 players raid wont get far away ever.

People are used to do 1-2 hc/n raids per day/night, everyday, so they can just have fun or maybe having luck and kill as many bosses with a good group.

Please think about that, dont rush it, people will just loose faith if they are going to join a n/hc premade group and break the raid after first boss, they wont wait 7more days to join a damn heroic and just give up.
Same for 10-20 player progressing guilds, with current scaling, things will be even worse for them, they would prefer to take another 10players from premade to go with a 30raid to have some luck, even if they will have to repeat the bosses again.

Again, please dont rush with this idea, just keep thinking about it.

Oh yea, this may work aswell:

WarningG wrote:

In my opinion best way is to find middle for first and second choice. For example, we can leave "LOOT CD". Add "RAID CD" and give to all ppl command to reset "RAID CD".

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rempty · Posted: 05-04-2018, 21:38:39 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

WarningG wrote:

In my opinion best way is to find middle for first and second choice. For example, we can leave "LOOT CD". Add "RAID CD" and give to all ppl command to reset "RAID CD". In result you can leave your cd, and next day go for last bosses. But who want to run again same boss, for example to TRAIN your skill. They can reset cooldown for that.

A good idea!

Just a question for automatize this system. When you enter to other raid and you already have a raidcd, delete the current one and add the new RaidCD, i think this are managed by ID, dont know if posible, it will be like retail.

WarningG · Posted: 05-04-2018, 21:40:30 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

rempty wrote:

WarningG wrote:

In my opinion best way is to find middle for first and second choice. For example, we can leave "LOOT CD". Add "RAID CD" and give to all ppl command to reset "RAID CD". In result you can leave your cd, and next day go for last bosses. But who want to run again same boss, for example to TRAIN your skill. They can reset cooldown for that.

A good idea!

Just a question for automatize this system. When you enter to other raid and you already have a raidcd, delete the current one and add the new RaidCD, i think this are managed by ID, dont know if posible, it will be like retail.

What work not like you think. You run for raidcd. Then leave and use command and you resen your cd. You can go another raid who have raidcd already. And just ACCEPT her/his CD. Easy)

Thereckless · Posted: 05-04-2018, 22:02:10 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

I think that WarningG's idea is the best One. It both helps guilds Who would like to help low geared player/alt by doing 2 normals per week (with some so called boosters which are already geared and can help) and guilds that would like to 'progress through week'.
It can even make the premade system better, let me explain with an example:

A player chose to join (obviously keep in mind of personal loot CD) an ongoing raid at 6/10 boss (he doesn't Need the first 6 ones and he is sick of doing them). He also knows that accepting this he Will be locket out and can't loot them and then this pug raid ends NH.
This being said the next day his guildmaster decide to plan a Gear run to help low geared players. The above quoted player reset his own raid CD in order to join the raid and help them. Obviously he can't loot the lasts 4 bosses but he can join and loot the ones he didn't yet

I know i've wrote a boring post so i'm Sorry