[REJECTED] [Paladin][retribution] Paladin damage formula

[searcas]

https://www.youtu.be/ xQC54I1ou2s?t=740 time 12:20 his damage on 13 stacks wings is 102223.8-116.995 damage i'll not be asshole and i'll took this lower damage.
Mine damage on 15 stacks is 101.493: https://imgur.com/a/1DPvU
Lets compare
His stats
Strenght: 30.915
Versatility:6.44
Legendary:10%
Mine stats:33.231 strenght
Versatility:7.88%
Legendary:0%
so even if i had legendary it will be 101.493+10149,3 math is simple=111.642,3
So im on 15 he's on 13 crusade so i have +2 stacks=+3%, i have more strenght+2316 strenght, i've a little more versatility so just depends im not sure if on retail shows versatility like base stats damage or just count with addition damage on freakz is immediately on base damage.
With my max stacks+2=3% and more strenght and versatility it turns out i only have +9419 damage with all this benefits and this patch is aiming on MAINSTATS.

[Brigadee]

@searcas
What you don't understand is that we CAN'T make "custom fixes", to increase paladin's damage with x% so his damage will get the same like on retail.
We must find WHERE is the problem, wrong formula, forgotten hotfixes, or anything of this kind.

Custom fixes on classes were never made and will never be made, so the only hope for paladin's damage to get at the same level or better as retail one is to find out where the problem lies.

Linking and making comparations of freakz-retail wont help us to find out where the problem lies.

I hope you understand that.


Holy Paladin 7.1.5 Guide

[searcas]

Ofc there is a way why i bring all of this, copmparing can find out of missing scaling or something, i never said INCRRASE in % by comparing u can see where's damage missing and where should be looking into, this is just sharing detalis for formula's which can be solved by math amd acctually you fixing the equation nothing else.
And yea i can't look into your CODE lines and looking something maybe from 7.0.0 patch which you forgot to change or uptade or smh like that.
Like i said even HP SCALING IS WRONG.
Thank you for undestand that.

[Justiceman2]

a possible runway

Weapon Damage Formula to check

Spoiler:

https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory/mechanic/function/weapondamage?spec=PaladinRetribution&&version=7_1_5_23420&&report=075fff7c312c41e7b60f3bed334fb21b

if not IsOffHand
weapon = Gear(MainHand)
if IsOffHand
weapon = Gear(OffHand)
if weapon.IsTwoHander
weaponSpeed = 3.3
Result = (damage + TotalAttackPower / 3.5 * weaponSpeed) * TotalDamageMultiplier
if IsPhysical
Result = Result * ArmorReduction
-
damage
?
-
TotalAttackPower {Total Attack Power from all sources (strength/agility/bonus armor, gear, buffs, multipliers, temporary procs, etc.).}
= Round(StatRating(AttackPower), 0)
if IsStrengthSpec
= Value + TotalStrength
= Value * StatMultiplier(AttackPower)
-
weaponSpeed
3.3
-
TotalDamageMultiplier {Total multiplier on damage, often gained from temporary buffs, passive abilities, etc.}
= StatMultiplier(DamageMultiplier) * (1 + TotalVersatility)
-
TotalStrength
= Round((BasePrimaryStat(Strength) + StatRating(Strength)) * StatMultiplier(Strength), 0)
-
Value
?
-
TotalDamageMultiplier
= StatMultiplier(DamageMultiplier) * (1 + TotalVersatility)
-
TotalVersatility
= StatExtra(Versatility) + Round(StatRating(Versatility), 0) / RatingConversion(Versatility, PlayerLevel) / 100
-
So the full formula ca be ? not sure is correct
-
Result = (damage + (Value * StatMultiplier(AttackPower)) / 3.5 * 3.3) * (StatMultiplier(DamageMultiplier) * (1 + TotalVersatility))
Result = Result * ArmorReduction
-
Where ArmorReduction is
targetArmor = CreatureArmorWarrior(TargetLevel)
if TargetCreatureClass = MageCreature
targetArmor = CreatureArmorMage(TargetLevel)
targetArmor = targetArmor * (1 - TotalIgnoreArmor)
Result = 1 - targetArmor / (targetArmor + ArmorConstant(PlayerLevel))

[Buchlo1]

searcas wrote:

https://www.youtu.be/ xQC54I1ou2s?t=740 time 12:20 his damage on 13 stacks wings is 102223.8-116.995 damage i'll not be asshole and i'll took this lower damage. Mine damage on 15 stacks is 101.493: https://imgur.com/a/1DPvU Lets compare His stats Strenght: 30.915 Versatility:6.44 Legendary:10% Mine stats:33.231 strenght Versatility:7.88% Legendary:0% so even if i had legendary it will be 101.493+10149,3 math is simple=111.642,3 So im on 15 he's on 13 crusade so i have +2 stacks=+3%, i have more strenght+2316 strenght, i've a little more versatility so just depends im not sure if on retail shows versatility like base stats damage or just count with addition damage on freakz is immediately on base damage. With my max stacks+2=3% and more strenght and versatility it turns out i only have +9419 damage with all this benefits and this patch is aiming on MAINSTATS.

This guy's [Crusade] damage+haste increase in video is somehow 4,1% per tick(15 times max) we only have 3% x 15 times on freakz. 61,5% total increase vs 45% total increase. But still it doesnt explain why paladins on freakz cant come over 1Mio burst dps how it should be and we cant simply find it.

[Justiceman2]

Found something weird about paladin

https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=207604 (wowhead link)
Vs
https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=207604

Why on freakz is 1% instead of 5% ? ingame is displayed 5% but is 1% ?

This is correct ? on freakz 0 (+110% AP) on retail 7.0.3 (Fri Nov 11 2016) Build 22201 is (660% of attack power)

https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=179546 (wowhead link)
VS
https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=179546

[searcas]

Buchlo1 wrote:

searcas wrote: https://www.youtu.be/ xQC54I1ou2s?t=740 time 12:20 his damage on 13 stacks wings is 102223.8-116.995 damage i'll not be asshole and i'll took this lower damage. Mine damage on 15 stacks is 101.493: https://imgur.com/a/1DPvU Lets compare His stats Strenght: 30.915 Versatility:6.44 Legendary:10% Mine stats:33.231 strenght Versatility:7.88% Legendary:0% so even if i had legendary it will be 101.493+10149,3 math is simple=111.642,3 So im on 15 he's on 13 crusade so i have +2 stacks=+3%, i have more strenght+2316 strenght, i've a little more versatility so just depends im not sure if on retail shows versatility like base stats damage or just count with addition damage on freakz is immediately on base damage. With my max stacks+2=3% and more strenght and versatility it turns out i only have +9419 damage with all this benefits and this patch is aiming on MAINSTATS. This guy's [Crusade] damage+haste increase in video is somehow 4,1% per tick(15 times max) we only have 3% x 15 times on freakz. 61,5% total increase vs 45% total increase. But still it doesnt explain why paladins on freakz cant come over 1Mio burst dps how it should be and we cant simply find it.

Im not sure that is correct.

[eldarx]

Justiceman2 wrote:

This is correct ? on freakz 0 (+110% AP) on retail 7.0.3 (Fri Nov 11 2016) Build 22201 is (660% of attack power) https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=179546 (wowhead link) VS https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=179546

This is correct because it is 110% x tick, 6 ticks = 660%

Justiceman2 wrote:

Found something weird about paladin https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=207604 (wowhead link) Vs https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=207604 Why on freakz is 1% instead of 5% ? ingame is displayed 5% but is 1% ?

This im not sure... seems weird

[Quicksand]

This topic will die here, because nothing of what you say guys are remotely true.

@liv I thought I was pretty clear back then...
https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=231663

At level 42 you learn Judgment Rank 2 which makes you deal 10% increased damage to targets hit by judgment.
Your MASTERY then further increases this effect by x%. So you will always have 10+x %
https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory/mechanic/spell/judgment?spec=PaladinRetribution&&version=7_1_5_23420

Weapon Damage formula is not the issue, we have the EXACT same implementation than the one seen on ask mr robot, I'll make a thorough calculation someday for you guys to see that we have the exact same formula for weapon damage (even though I already did this like 10 times because of similar reasons).

Update @ 17-01-2018, 00:46:53

Justiceman2 wrote:

Found something weird about paladin https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=207604 (wowhead link) Vs https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=207604 Why on freakz is 1% instead of 5% ? ingame is displayed 5% but is 1% ? This is correct ? on freakz 0 (+110% AP) on retail 7.0.3 (Fri Nov 11 2016) Build 22201 is (660% of attack power) https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=179546 (wowhead link) VS https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=179546

Because since when does the website know how many ranks do you have on your artifact weapon? It cannot. It says 1%, because that is the rank0 value. as soon as you learn the effect, it becomes 5%, than it gets increased by 0.5% for each level. It's the exact same for all classes/specs

And it's 110% * 6 (because it ticks 6 times)

Update @ 17-01-2018, 01:05:13

Okay, so let's calculate some weapon damage for you guys:
based on this formula: https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory/mechanic/function/weapondamage?spec=PaladinRetribution&&version=7_1_5_23420
and these are my stats: https://imgur.com/a/q0yZ3

isNormalized = false (we are not looking for normalized damage)
weaponSpeed = 3.6

damage = TotalMainHandDamage (this is the average damage from min - max) = (min + max) / 2 = (7504 + 11258) / 2 = 9381
TotalAttackPower = 31967

Result = (damage + TotalAttackPower / 3.5 * weaponSpeed) = (9381 + 31967 / 3.5 * 3.6) = 42261 => this is the AVERAGE damage, WITHOUT modifiers such as auras, versatility, etc. This is just the Main stat (aka strength => attackpower) and weapon damage.

Now if you want to calculate minDamage and maxDamage, just simply use that in the formula above

minDamage = (minWeaponDamage + TotalAttackPower / 3.5 * weaponSpeed) = (7504 + 31967 / 3.5 * 3.6) = 40384
maxDamage = (maxWeaponDamage + TotalAttackPower / 3.5 * weaponSpeed) = (11258 + 31967 / 3.5 * 3.6) = 44138

Now look at the screenshot I sent to you and tell me that these weren't the EXACT same result. The result we got from AskMrRobot's calculations is the average of min and max damage (=> (40384 + 44138) / 2 = 42261)

So for the 21321564562th time: Weapon Damage formula is NOT incorrect.

If you have to look at generic formulas as these, you are looking at the WRONG thing. You think that the same formula work correctly for 11 classes and 35 specs, but only for Retribution it does not? Generic formulas such as these are implemented and kept updated with a huge care, as these could influence the whole game, not just one spec's performance. In case of retribution paladin, you must look for smthing spec specific and NOT this general

Update @ 17-01-2018, 01:11:30

searcas wrote:

Ok please tell me from when mastery will incrase damage on wake of ashes, is that freakz script and tings?

I didn't even understand that sentence, but just in case:
Wake Of Ashes is not affected by mastery (read the tooltip: damage taken from holy power SPENDERS), as it is not a spender but a generator. As of now on FREAKZ, its damage is not affected by master, as it never was, not even on retail:
https://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory/mechanic/spell/wakeofashes?spec=PaladinRetribution&&version=7_1_5_23420

[searcas]

U have to kidding me, u mention that he had more mastery when i said compare damage of wake of ashes, did i said its incase or i was just confused because you said it?
Okay explain this retail same patch lower ilvl that guy on youtube which we use to compare he have 61k-69k with addon
i have with same addon https://imgur.com/a/BYREB

Update @ 17-01-2018, 01:17:27

so i have with higher ilvl higher ilvl of weapon i have less damage but you are sure about your MR.ROBOT FORMULA

[Quicksand]

Dude, if you make me go to retail, open up my character panel, and calculate the EXACT same values with mrrobot formula, I swear to all living beings that I'll ban you for life.

I TOLD YOU, versatility is NOT added in our case (7.88% in your case), add it manually, and you'll have

minDamage = 57580 * 1.0788 = 62117
maxDamage = 65620 * 1.0788 = 70790

THAT is your actual damage. But instead of adding versatility at the beginning so it shows up on your character panel, we add it LATER, when you actually deal damage.

[searcas]

And lets say like this on retail same patch similar ilvl does 1.5m with burst.
i 901 ilvl with full knowlage with full buffs pots can't pull barely 1m dps with burst its a SHAME, its not problem to us for sure, its SERVER problem.
i don't have just BELT witch incrase 10% damage its just a little more dps in burst nothing more.

[Quicksand]

Read again what I wrote:

"If you have to look at generic formulas as these, you are looking at the WRONG thing. You think that the same formula work correctly for 11 classes and 35 specs, but only for Retribution it does not? Generic formulas such as these are implemented and kept updated with a huge care, as these could influence the whole game, not just one spec's performance. In case of retribution paladin, you must look for smthing spec specific and NOT this general"

I did not say there there is no issue with your spec. I just told you to lay off of things like "omg 7.0.0 formulas". It's not a generic formula that's at fault

Update @ 17-01-2018, 01:28:49

Regarding HP scaling, do you even realize, that you can be iLvl 910 with in infinite number of variation of gear pieces? And just in case you didn't know, you can have iLvl 910 with ilvl 800 chest and ilvl 925 wrists, or ilvl 925 chest and ilvl 800 wrist. And in case you didn't know this either, chestpieces tend to give shitton more stamina. So even if you have the same iLvl as the guy in the video, as long as you don't have the exact same gear setup (same ilvl on each of the pieces), your stats will probably differ. If you want I can do the exact same calculations for stamina too, but I prefer not wasting any more time here looking for issues in generic formulas when there clearly are none

[searcas]

I NEVER SAID ITS MAIN PROBLEM DAMAGE OF WEAPON!
I compared one of problem like i said is damage weapon which i compared on dummy 4stacks only 700k he 780 4 stacks with less everything.
Even if that get "FIXED" it will not be the real problem for fixing ret pala.
Maybe armor is problem or prenetration if even exist in legion, because i doing SAME damage to everything like everything here on 110+ lvl have same ARMOR.
But what i trying to say where i think problem legging down is on STRENGHT somehow and critical damage critical chance work properly i think, but what causes proc like more strenght power and etc its not correct.

Update @ 17-01-2018, 01:38:54

Yeye and i know you can say its max damage of weapon mine could be min or smh like that but even i tested few times like 20+ i never got 780+ even im 10ilvl and 3k strenght more which you forget.

Update @ 17-01-2018, 01:46:50

https://imgur.com/a/2oX97 no luck again for max :/ feels bad?

Update @ 17-01-2018, 01:57:14

searcas wrote:

https://www.youtu.be/ xQC54I1ou2s?t=740 time 12:20 his damage on 13 stacks wings is 102223.8-116.995 damage i'll not be asshole and i'll took this lower damage. Mine damage on 15 stacks is 101.493: https://imgur.com/a/1DPvU Lets compare His stats Strenght: 30.915 Versatility:6.44 Legendary:10% Mine stats:33.231 strenght Versatility:7.88% Legendary:0% so even if i had legendary it will be 101.493+10149,3 math is simple=111.642,3 So im on 15 he's on 13 crusade so i have +2 stacks=+3%, i have more strenght+2316 strenght, i've a little more versatility so just depends im not sure if on retail shows versatility like base stats damage or just count with addition damage on freakz is immediately on base damage. With my max stacks+2=3% and more strenght and versatility it turns out i only have +9419 damage with all this benefits and this patch is aiming on MAINSTATS.

And yea like you said for him versatility is not counted in that damage.
for me was even counted am i right of this?

[searcas]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/F8YacZLMwV3ythzk#fight=6&&type=damage-done&&source=18
vs
https://imgur.com/a/bRuDV
Okay
I have overinformation now so maybe i don't say everything right
Like first where's damage missing.
He finish 740k dps exacly damage done: 215330000/270sec=797k DPS
Where's my damage missing?
On Blade of justice his average is about 550k mine 447k
on Wake of ashes
from 5 cast 126k average
his average 433k from 10 cast
Brittle i reported this alerdy trinket doing low damage i lost there much dps.
and OLD WAR from one cast w/o prepot because he took POWER too he did 7m i did with 2 pots 6.81m lol?
So this is on mine 100m and his 200m if i got deepr it would be even worse.
I'll do test tomorrow but for sure some spell's and trinkets pots don't do damage which they should.
and to mention that is 899-901 ilvl warcraftlog