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[FIXED] [Trinket] Crit vs RPPM @ Gaze of the Twins

 
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Maev

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Post Posted: 29-02-2016, 13:54:29 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

WoW Freakz link: https://www.wow-freakz.com/item_finder.php?item=96915&&name=gaze-of-the-twins
https://www.wow-freakz.com/item_finder.php?item=96873&&name=primordius-talisman-of-rage

Bug description: The proc is realy Bad on trinkets , i mean even if your the unluckiest person in the world during a fight 5-10 min you steel have a chance to full stack the trinket 1 time. I spent 5 Min on a dummy and never had full stack 1 time on trinkets. you can see that [Primordius' Talisman of Rage] staks maximum 2 times then fades and 1-2 seconds afther it procs again if tried even with weapon 1.4 speed to see if the AS is the problem but no, same thing happens.

for: https://www.wow-freakz.com/item_finder.php?item=96873&&name=primordius-talisman-of-rage

That checks your weapon speed, and gives your attacks a % chance based on that. If you have a 3.6speed weapon, your attacks will have a 3(PPM) * 3.6(weaponspeed) / 60 (sec per min) = 18% chance. All your white and yellow attacks with that weapon will have an 18% chance to trigger the enchant. Despite being supposedly ‘3 PPM’, that really will result in significantly more than 3 procs per minute.

and we can add the >> We increased the proc rate of the following trinkets by 10%:
• Renataki’s Soul Charm
• Talisman of Bloodlust
• Bad Juju
• Rune of Re-Origination
• Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun
• Primordius’ Talisman of Rage
• Spark of Zandalar
• Gaze of the Twins

will result in a total of 28% proc chance


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8197741003

Last night we hotfixed in a change for trinkets that use the RPPM system. Every time your trinket fails to proc, it increases the chance it will proc. Unlucky streaks will be more rare and extremely unlucky streaks should never happen. In addition, we increased the chance for these trinkets to proc on the pull. To top it off, we increased the proc rates of the Agility and Strength trinkets in Throne of Thunder by 10% and the Intellect and Spirit trinkets by 5%.

Painfully detailed explanation for theorycrafting:
As usual, you absolutely do not need to know or understand the following in order to use or best take advantage of these procs. This info is just for theorycrafters who want to understand the exact details of the system, so that they can model and simulate it better.

Calculate the proc frequency as normal. Based on that, you can figure out the expected average proc interval. We also now keep track of time since the last successful proc (this is different from the time since last chance to proc), capped at 1000 sec. Multiply the proc chance by MAX(1, 1+((TimeSinceLastSuccessfulProc/AverageProcInterval)-1.5)*3). For example, if a proc has an average proc interval of 45 sec, and it’s been 72 sec since your last successful proc, you’ll get a 1.3x multiplier to your proc chance. If you’ve been out of combat for a few min, and it’s been 5 min since your last successful proc, you’ll get a whopping 16.5x multiplier to your proc chance.

We increased the proc rate of the following trinkets by 10%:
• Renataki’s Soul Charm
• Talisman of Bloodlust
• Bad Juju
• Rune of Re-Origination
• Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun
• Primordius’ Talisman of Rage
• Spark of Zandalar
• Gaze of the Twins

and for : https://www.wow-freakz.com/item_finder.php?item=96915&&name=gaze-of-the-twins

This explains the horrendous uptime for getting more than 1 stack and actually having a lower chance to gain a 2nd stack than to gain your 1st stack since RPPM says "you just got a stack, your chance for another is crap" instead of assuming "based on crit, your crit increased with stack 1 so stack 2 should come faster."

- Gaze of the Twins – 0.825*(1+MeleeCritChance) RealPPM on critical harmful abilities and spells, periodic spell, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD.

UPDATE FOR 5.4: Proc rate has been decreased even farther from its original RPPM, down to 0.72 Procs per Minute, and Gaze of the Twins proc-rate no longer benefits from Haste, however although undocumented, the proc is now working as intended, in that, the more frequently your attacks Critically Hit, the more opportunities for the trinket to proc. On extreme add-heavy bosses, such as Galakras, its quite easy to gain a full stack of 3 Gaze of the Twins buffs due nonstop AoE Crits on high number of adds - and - on stationary single target bosses or enemies, the trinket fluctuates, with an overall nerf from its original RPPM.

Proof:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=NPEHB8j6ZSg:





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Shocker

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Post Posted: 25-03-2016, 16:26:19 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

ANOTHER RPPM bug report with "omg proc too low" ? Rolling Eyes
I didn't read the whole topic, most of it is useless wall of text and mechanics we already fixed/implemented.

Bottom line: actual proof proc is not correct? If you plan to respond, post some math calculations to prove that you indeed understood the RPPM system. But if you want to post "omg bugged look here video with 999 procs" then don't post at all


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Maev

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Post Posted: 25-03-2016, 17:37:22 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

" TLDR: This trinket is 1 RPPM, effected only by haste, " ( Haste on warr = atack speed ) i tested it with 1h weapon 1.9 speed and it procs the same. for [Primordius' Talisman of Rage]

Ghostcrawler: Currently, no, the fact that it only procs on crits basically doesn’t matter for more than flavor. However, we’re considering making these multiply the proc chance by your crit chance, so that they get the “more crit = more procs” for [Gaze of the Twins]




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Shocker

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Post Posted: 25-03-2016, 17:39:43 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Not sure I understand the bug... how should crit chance affect proc chance? Should it? Ghostcrawler said "we're considering making it multiply by crit chance", did this happnen ?

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Post Posted: 25-03-2016, 17:51:13 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

I don't have these trinkets but from what can i read on spell finder the first bug is that they have an ICD: gaze 10 sec and talisman 5 sec and they shouldn't have an icd.
Gaze of the twins should proc only from crits and the proc chance should be increased by the crit chance you have. Proof for this is that on wowhead it even tells that: Your critical attacks have a chance to grant you 253 Critical Strike for 20 sec. This effect can stack up to 3 times. (Approximately [0.72 + Crit] procs per minute) - https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=139171 (wowhead link).
Another proof is this : Gaze of the Twins – 0.825*(1+MeleeCritChance) RealPPM on critical harmful abilities and spells, periodic spell, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD. - you can read more here http://www.wowhead.com/item=94529/gaze-of-the-twins#comments


 
Staff message (Shocker):
 
ICD issue is discussed here https://www.freakz.ro/forum/Primordius-Talisman-of-Rage-ICD-t418100.html


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Maev

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Post Posted: 25-03-2016, 18:51:12 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Shocker wrote:
Not sure I understand the bug... how should crit chance affect proc chance? Should it? Ghostcrawler said "we're considering making it multiply by crit chance", did this happnen ?


the ICD is the Problem because is ON, " - Primordius’ Talisman of R age – 3.3 RealPPM on landing harmful abilities and spells, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD. " i think Primordius’ Talisman of Rage dosent work from mastery on warrior and - Gaze of the Twins – 0.825*(1+MeleeCritChance) RealPPM on critical harmful abilities and spells, periodic spell, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD. the problem is that on freakz they have ICD on proc. it was made the change since dis dude get the procs faster since first stak not to mention afther the second one > look at the proc of this dude

https://youtube.com/watch?v=iyBtRnI8mWY:

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Shocker

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Post Posted: 28-03-2016, 15:22:50 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

The ICD was removed, can we close this topic?

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Post Posted: 28-03-2016, 15:27:43 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Shocker wrote:
The ICD was removed, can we close this topic?


Well no, you still need to fix gaze of the twins proc chance to be increased by critical chance. Read what I posted a few day ago:

Gaze of the twins should proc only from crits and the proc chance should be increased by the crit chance you have. Proof for this is that on wowhead it even tells that: Your critical attacks have a chance to grant you 253 Critical Strike for 20 sec. This effect can stack up to 3 times. (Approximately [0.72 + Crit] procs per minute) - https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=139171 (wowhead link).
Another proof is this : Gaze of the Twins – 0.825*(1+MeleeCritChance) RealPPM on critical harmful abilities and spells, periodic spell, and melee/ranged abilities and swings. No ICD. - you can read more here http://www.wowhead.com/item=94529/gaze-of-the-twins#comments

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Post Posted: 28-03-2016, 18:27:35 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

I've studied the RPPM system even more and found out quite a lot of new stuffs:
- Some items have RPPM modified by critical strike ( Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance and Gaze of the Twins), now correctly seen on the spellfinder too
- Some items have RPPM modified based on class ( Unerring Vision of Lei Shen for example now has -40% RPPM for warlocks), now correctly seen on the spellfinder (we can also see a new mechanic I discovered: reduced proc chance in arenas/bgs, this trinket should have -75% proc chance in arenas/bgs but we don't have some blizz info about this yet, I'll implement it in next phase)
- Some items don't benefit from haste @ RPPM: Rune of Re-Origination, Battleplate of the Last Mogu

Correctly fixed haste/crit scaling / per class modifiers for all items


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Locked by Shocker, 28 March 2016 16:27



 
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