Suggestions to improve PvP !

[palosipetya]

Isle of conquest and Strand of the Ancients, and also cross faction queue

[wbn]

topgun750 wrote:

My 2 cents on the topic: Spoiler: 1. Disabling premade BGs is a no-go. A lot of people want to have fun and play with their friends, and despite what some people here believe, this would actually kill the PvP community. 3. We should work on a way to implement Rated BGs, since a lot of the PvP community is actually asking for it. The normal BGs shouldnt have to suffer at that cost however, and if win-trading is an issue, I am fine by personally hosting RBG events two or three times a week, so people can actually play and enjoy it. As a long time PvPer who mostly found enjoyment in RBGs, I think this is one of the features we're missing to make the PvP community really bloom and shine. Its fine if we make it so the RBG cannot start without a GM's permission or whatever, just so we rule out the wintrading aspect. 4. Some hotfixes to classes and items will be required (in case they're not already patched for 7.3.5 ofcourse) - hunters or paladins capping flags while bubbled, rogues or others doing it while stealthed thanks to the potion, etc... These are major issues, and while we do regularly ban people for these exploits, if we want to build a serious PvP environment we'll have to fix these; not just punish. 5. Enabling legendaries and simillar items in PvP is a no-go, as it would furthermore ruin the balance. 6. Perhaps think of a way to alter the PvP templates in such a way, that the hard-earned gear of some players actually matters more (with Legion's templates scaling is kind of a joke). Kind regards, GM Topgun

1. Pvp community.. Same players are making premade groups almost every day. I don't think there are more that 100-120 different people (not talking about their xx number of chars) in a 7 day time span that make premades. I also thought about modifying queuing system behavior regarding premades. For instance, allowing only 3 player (max) groups being able to que, no two or more groups should be on the same team unless there are not enough players after an x amount of time.
3. I think, if it's even possible, detailed logs for tracking whoever joins rated bg (like account, chars, IPs, etc ) should be maintained and checked once a day for signs of wintrading. I don't like the idea of hosting events. Players want to que on their time, not yours.
4. I agree fully. Note that in 7.3 invis potion was hotfixed on retail.
5. Legendaries and set bonuses are a no from me.
6. This should be for rated gear. Only way it would matter more is upping the ilvls on items. Like I've stated, making them scale with m+ via rating(e.g. 1.8-2k for m15 item). Perhaps even making tertiary stats be more frequent on these items. Not saying to enable these stats in PvP tho.

Also, don't forget about the Dalaran pvp item vendors. You could make it so that gear bought from them is much better, while leaving all other gear untouched.

[topgun750]

wbn wrote:

topgun750 wrote: My 2 cents on the topic: Spoiler: 1. Disabling premade BGs is a no-go. A lot of people want to have fun and play with their friends, and despite what some people here believe, this would actually kill the PvP community. 3. We should work on a way to implement Rated BGs, since a lot of the PvP community is actually asking for it. The normal BGs shouldnt have to suffer at that cost however, and if win-trading is an issue, I am fine by personally hosting RBG events two or three times a week, so people can actually play and enjoy it. As a long time PvPer who mostly found enjoyment in RBGs, I think this is one of the features we're missing to make the PvP community really bloom and shine. Its fine if we make it so the RBG cannot start without a GM's permission or whatever, just so we rule out the wintrading aspect. 4. Some hotfixes to classes and items will be required (in case they're not already patched for 7.3.5 ofcourse) - hunters or paladins capping flags while bubbled, rogues or others doing it while stealthed thanks to the potion, etc... These are major issues, and while we do regularly ban people for these exploits, if we want to build a serious PvP environment we'll have to fix these; not just punish. 5. Enabling legendaries and simillar items in PvP is a no-go, as it would furthermore ruin the balance. 6. Perhaps think of a way to alter the PvP templates in such a way, that the hard-earned gear of some players actually matters more (with Legion's templates scaling is kind of a joke). Kind regards, GM Topgun 1. Pvp community.. Same players are making premade groups almost every day. I don't think there are more that 100-120 different people (not talking about their xx number of chars) in a 7 day time span that make premades. I also thought about modifying queuing system behavior regarding premades. For instance, allowing only 3 player (max) groups being able to que, no two or more groups should be on the same team unless there are not enough players after an x amount of time. 3. I think, if it's even possible, detailed logs for tracking whoever joins rated bg (like account, chars, IPs, etc ) should be maintained and checked once a day for signs of wintrading. I don't like the idea of hosting events. Players want to que on their time, not yours. 4. I agree fully. Note that in 7.3 invis potion was hotfixed on retail. 5. Legendaries and set bonuses are a no from me. 6. This should be for rated gear. Only way it would matter more is upping the ilvls on items. Like I've stated, making them scale with m+ via rating(e.g. 1.8-2k for m15 item). Perhaps even making tertiary stats be more frequent on these items. Not saying to enable these stats in PvP tho. Also, don't forget about the Dalaran pvp item vendors. You could make it so that gear bought from them is much better, while leaving all other gear untouched.

Thanks for your feedback on my suggestions Wbn, its appreciated! Since you've used the same structure I have to answer me, I'll use the same one to answer you, as it is the easiest way of reading it I suppose. So here goes:

1. I disagree here. I am one of those players that runs a premade group once a week, or once every 2 weeks, despite being online every day. I've seen several ocassions where a person would say in guild "Anybody wanna join in for some BGs" and random players would join in, even those who have 0 interest in PvP otherwise, out of pure boredom. I think it's important that we dont remove the group aspect from a group activity in a multiplayer game, as that literally ruins the activity. Groups are the fun part of BGs; and Im not even talking gear here. Its just knowing that your teammates will be able to help focus on the objectives, cover your back, and to laugh about it together on Discord when something stupid happens.

3. Yes and no. The reason I was thinking of RBG events is, because lets face it - if its an event, more people will join. If its something you do everyday, it eventually becomes boring, and people stop doing it (other than wintraders). I am 90% sure that if we do release RBGs, the first month it'll be played daily, by loads of different players, then a month into 7.3.5, there'll only be 2 guilds still running them, and perhaps one PUG group every 2 weeks. Thats it. And at this point wintrading and exhausting become major problems.

6. No, I actually disagree - a lot of players (myself included) love battlegrounds, but dislike arenas. We dont want to force people into doing something they dont want to do. Id be okay with adding a small boost to PvP gear, in PvP scenarios though. One of the major problems of Legion's PvP is, that at the end of the day, PvE gear is better than PvP gear. Inside structured PvP, its supposingly the same, whereas outside, PvE gear outshines PvP gear by a large margin. How about we make it so the PvP gear outshines PvE gear in organised PvP? This isnt exactly blizzlike, but it is a feature that was implemented on all of the very popular PvP expansions, and made PvP feel rewarding, and encouraged players to actually dedicate to it.

Just out of my head, if we add lets say 2% damage boost and 2% damage reduction in BGs and Arenas for each PvP piece equipped, players might opt for this type of gear instead of the PvE one? In raids and dungeons PvE would still hold the high ground, cause of the set bonuses, legendaries, trinkets, diversity, etc... But in PvP, it'd actually pay off if you spent hundreds of hours grinding BGs to get proper gear, and you could actually showcase it.

And before anybody comes with the comment "yE bUt dOnOrS wIlL sMaSh uS" - the 2% damage boost and reduction would still be much less notable than for example a fully geared conquest player in MoP literally shitting on all of the honor gears. So I dont think itd be that big of a deal, honestly. It'd just be the cherry on top, and a sense of accomplishment for the player himself.


Regards,
GM Topgun

[oriyus]

In my opinion, here are the things that should be done in order to improve pvp:
1. Fix and discover new pvp/class-related bugs: its not a good sign to see people leaving because of a disbalance or any type of advantage against other players.
2. Both battleground teams have to be equal in terms of quantity (10v10 for example).In addition, splitting healers so they can be almost at the same level.
3. Make all kind of tournaments to evolve and keep alive the pvp community.
4. Implement some sort of decay system for rated bgs and arenas to encourage them playing frequently wich can lead to more challenging games. (Lets say i have high rating in 3s and i haven't been active for a week, for each inactive week a small part of my rating will be deduced ex: -20 first week, -25 second and -30 third week).

[jex1000]

Idk i have some ideas about pvp,in 7.3.5 it can be doing pvp 1vs1 tournaments that you can earn some title or 1vs1 events in Gurubashi Arena ,and maybe solo que 1vs1 too.And why not remaining battlegrounds to be added?The Lich king ones

[mystic.qwand]

I would add more to my earlier first comment:

"Separating donors from noobs. Meaning, smarter way of "random battleground" where the teams facing each other would be roughly on the same prestige level or item level."

+ Matching the same number of players, so when 2-3 players go offline for any reason kick them asap and match the number of players again.
+ Legendary effects should be enabled in bg's, would make PvP more diverse, colorful and interesting to explore.
+ Toys should be enabled in bg's, not in arenas though.
+ Fix potion cooldown (Engineering: Nitro boost as well).
+ Fix or enable 10v10 rated bg's for more rewards.

[Neunia]

+ Matching the same number of players, so when 2-3 players go offline for any reason kick them asap and match the number of players again.
+ Legendary effects should be enabled in bg's, would make PvP more diverse, colorful and interesting to explore.
+ Fix potion cooldown (Engineering: Nitro boost as well).

1. NO big NO , there are often mass errors, disconnects in bgs that affects 6-8 players, if they get kicked from bg i dont even have to tell whats then.
2.Legos in BGs Big big big NO there are stacks and buffs that can oneshot 10 ppl with 1 ability.
3. There are no potion cooldown bugs, They are different items cooldowns and thats it. stop inventing bugs

Update @ 17-01-2020, 17:14:12

Twin peaks and WSG flag return needs to be fixed asap. sometimes you waste 15 min to cap 1 flag only because you cant click flag and return then capture enemy flag , and other team have plenty of time to take our flag again. and again, and again over and over.

[wbn]

topgun750 wrote:

wbn wrote: topgun750 wrote: My 2 cents on the topic: Spoiler: 1. Disabling premade BGs is a no-go. A lot of people want to have fun and play with their friends, and despite what some people here believe, this would actually kill the PvP community. 3. We should work on a way to implement Rated BGs, since a lot of the PvP community is actually asking for it. The normal BGs shouldnt have to suffer at that cost however, and if win-trading is an issue, I am fine by personally hosting RBG events two or three times a week, so people can actually play and enjoy it. As a long time PvPer who mostly found enjoyment in RBGs, I think this is one of the features we're missing to make the PvP community really bloom and shine. Its fine if we make it so the RBG cannot start without a GM's permission or whatever, just so we rule out the wintrading aspect. 4. Some hotfixes to classes and items will be required (in case they're not already patched for 7.3.5 ofcourse) - hunters or paladins capping flags while bubbled, rogues or others doing it while stealthed thanks to the potion, etc... These are major issues, and while we do regularly ban people for these exploits, if we want to build a serious PvP environment we'll have to fix these; not just punish. 5. Enabling legendaries and simillar items in PvP is a no-go, as it would furthermore ruin the balance. 6. Perhaps think of a way to alter the PvP templates in such a way, that the hard-earned gear of some players actually matters more (with Legion's templates scaling is kind of a joke). Kind regards, GM Topgun 1. Pvp community.. Same players are making premade groups almost every day. I don't think there are more that 100-120 different people (not talking about their xx number of chars) in a 7 day time span that make premades. I also thought about modifying queuing system behavior regarding premades. For instance, allowing only 3 player (max) groups being able to que, no two or more groups should be on the same team unless there are not enough players after an x amount of time. 3. I think, if it's even possible, detailed logs for tracking whoever joins rated bg (like account, chars, IPs, etc ) should be maintained and checked once a day for signs of wintrading. I don't like the idea of hosting events. Players want to que on their time, not yours. 4. I agree fully. Note that in 7.3 invis potion was hotfixed on retail. 5. Legendaries and set bonuses are a no from me. 6. This should be for rated gear. Only way it would matter more is upping the ilvls on items. Like I've stated, making them scale with m+ via rating(e.g. 1.8-2k for m15 item). Perhaps even making tertiary stats be more frequent on these items. Not saying to enable these stats in PvP tho. Also, don't forget about the Dalaran pvp item vendors. You could make it so that gear bought from them is much better, while leaving all other gear untouched. Thanks for your feedback on my suggestions Wbn, its appreciated! Since you've used the same structure I have to answer me, I'll use the same one to answer you, as it is the easiest way of reading it I suppose. So here goes: 1. I disagree here. I am one of those players that runs a premade group once a week, or once every 2 weeks, despite being online every day. I've seen several ocassions where a person would say in guild "Anybody wanna join in for some BGs" and random players would join in, even those who have 0 interest in PvP otherwise, out of pure boredom. I think it's important that we dont remove the group aspect from a group activity in a multiplayer game, as that literally ruins the activity. Groups are the fun part of BGs; and Im not even talking gear here. Its just knowing that your teammates will be able to help focus on the objectives, cover your back, and to laugh about it together on Discord when something stupid happens. 3. Yes and no. The reason I was thinking of RBG events is, because lets face it - if its an event, more people will join. If its something you do everyday, it eventually becomes boring, and people stop doing it (other than wintraders). I am 90% sure that if we do release RBGs, the first month it'll be played daily, by loads of different players, then a month into 7.3.5, there'll only be 2 guilds still running them, and perhaps one PUG group every 2 weeks. Thats it. And at this point wintrading and exhausting become major problems. 6. No, I actually disagree - a lot of players (myself included) love battlegrounds, but dislike arenas. We dont want to force people into doing something they dont want to do. Id be okay with adding a small boost to PvP gear, in PvP scenarios though. One of the major problems of Legion's PvP is, that at the end of the day, PvE gear is better than PvP gear. Inside structured PvP, its supposingly the same, whereas outside, PvE gear outshines PvP gear by a large margin. How about we make it so the PvP gear outshines PvE gear in organised PvP? This isnt exactly blizzlike, but it is a feature that was implemented on all of the very popular PvP expansions, and made PvP feel rewarding, and encouraged players to actually dedicate to it. Just out of my head, if we add lets say 2% damage boost and 2% damage reduction in BGs and Arenas for each PvP piece equipped, players might opt for this type of gear instead of the PvE one? In raids and dungeons PvE would still hold the high ground, cause of the set bonuses, legendaries, trinkets, diversity, etc... But in PvP, it'd actually pay off if you spent hundreds of hours grinding BGs to get proper gear, and you could actually showcase it. And before anybody comes with the comment "yE bUt dOnOrS wIlL sMaSh uS" - the 2% damage boost and reduction would still be much less notable than for example a fully geared conquest player in MoP literally shitting on all of the honor gears. So I dont think itd be that big of a deal, honestly. It'd just be the cherry on top, and a sense of accomplishment for the player himself. Regards, GM Topgun

[Felizaric]

It's nice to see a lot of action from staff and players but few things I have read here I would like to mention:

Altering Blizzard templates might break rated PvP and change it totally. I doubt that it would apply only for BGs.
Rated BGs after 2 weeks would be played by 2 guilds max and losing guild would stop so again we would have inactive PvP bracket. Rated BGs hosted by GM sounds nice, and I think it could work. I'm worried only because most people do Rated BGs to get titles and right now you can get titles by farming HKs maybe that could also get changed a little bit (even tho I, personally, like the current system)

I've read getting better gear from arenas. Truth is MMR system needs to be fixed and it will be just like m+ just for PvPers (atleast ones that do rated arena).
Right now my current rating and MMR is 1950 and facing 1700ish team gives me around 5 rating if I'm correct. Also new players that would like to do PvP here especially rated one if they go to ladder and see barely 2k in 2v2 and 1800 in 3v3 would just turn their head and walk away.

So yeah MMR system Fix should be high on list of priorities.

Exorcizare was right, think of adding quest for 2v2 or 3v3 arenas (games played or wins) so people start doing it. Yes there is weekly loot for 10 wins in 2v2 and 3v3 but as I mention above MMR system is not correct and its hard to get decent gear.
And yes I think adding Quests with nice rewards (a lot of marks of honor, flasks, gold, potions - just example I will let you think and decide on reward) on addition to weekly capp can increase activity in rated PvP.


Sincerely yours,

Felizarius

[Kaputtmaken]

Neunia wrote:

3. There are no potion cooldown bugs, They are different items cooldowns and thats it. stop inventing bugs

When you use nitro boost you wont be able to use any potion until you relog. And thats already a known bug since 7.1.5 and it would improve pvp and pve gameplay aswell when this gets fixed.

[Neunia]

a panda server i used to play on had an option to choose if you wanted to join BG as horde or as alliance, when you joined it also showed how many people were in que each side , Freakz needs this too. there was a command like .changebgfaction or something

And for LOVE of GOD remove those demented mercanary masks, you can tag players With horde or alliance flag and thats it . if its hostile you kill it regardless of the race.

[Deamolution]

There is a really really huge issue with MATCHMAKING in bgs, like others already said. I got matched ~70% vs high prestige premade groups, while my group is same low geared/prestiged/artefacted like me.
Same problems all my friends have, i do even wonder so many random people still running bgs. Its hardly mental pain to run bgs, loosing them and getting no reward in a row.

Today we got matched 5 times in a row vs a 5-7 ppl premade group even different ones, each of them were more then prestige 3 while our highest 2 people were pestige 1 and the other ones 0. Mulltiple times they even were more then allowed, for example bg was limited to 10, they were counted 12.
This happens very often and those bgs are just lost, most of the time they end up in spawn camping and afking. I have an avg winrate about ~35% on ~500 bgs on 5 different chars summed up, i do know each bg and try my best to win them.

I understand you cant stop those premade groups to queue up together, even tough they carry vs gold.
But why dont take this 2 premade groups we lost all games today and let them play vs each other instead of filling us vs them.

Mainly you should try to match prestige. If there is 1 prestige 10, in the other team should also be a similar high prestige. If there is a premade group on the other side then it should get balanced like matching vs another premade group with similar prestige or more people with higher prestige to eliminate premade advantage. If this isnt possible then you need to lock down premade groups to maximal 2-3 people.
For sure prestige isnt all but the chance is high those people have better gear, more artefact points and talents. If you sum this up for multiple people you have a massacre, like we had with spawn camping today and on many other days.

Else you could match people with low winrate together with high winrate ones, so all people pending between 45%-55%.

Not helpful but better then nothing: increase honor gain + item reward for loosing a bg, to 66% .

I would rather wait 10 minutes, then be able to join instantly but loosing almost 10 games in a row. I would begin to enjoy them again so like may many other peoples too.
Thats the most important thing you should work on, then you can try implementing more rewards or other things... I would have some good ideas.

The same for arena.

https://imgur.com/a/itWHBLN there are some example sort by prestige, i could play today 10 bgs and post you another 7 examples if you like oO.

[zethlington]

Battlegrounds always end up really unbalanced with prestiged players. And I really don't think it's because players are grouping up, because I've also noticed these players sometimes end up on different teams.

I wish there was a more fair and balanced system on how it decides on which faction you will end up in. And not like this https://i.imgur.com/oXuGwL2.mp4

[Stayfjurt]

Finally staff wanna do something about pvp, as ive said before

1. FIX skirmish , if you think its fine you are retarded. Healers should be allowed to que skirmish but they should be only qued to 3s skirmish ( if 2 healers que it will team up with 4 dps and form 3s skirmish , ofc only 1 healer per team , no tank allowed) so people can TRAIN and wont do only 1 3s rated and get stomped and thats it ( just move your cursor onto skirmish and u will see how this should work. I POSTED THIS MANY TIMES - ALLWAYS IGNORED. also put normal rewards for 3s skirm only so it will be more popular.

For example if you are shadow priest or enha sham , balance dudu etc. You cant even que 2v2 skirm cause u got rekt by dks rogs etc. BUT THOSE CLASSES ARE OP IN 3s skirm

2. Fix most bugged classes , like dk can 1v3 , one more reason why noone want to play arenas, with lvp fixed takes 300 days to fix you cant even try to be serious in pvp

3. Donators have zero to none better chance to win cause difference between donor or 850 ilvl 0,5% in stats which is almost nothing

4. As people mentioned before ,yes imput some rated quest for some cosmetics so you will lure more people into it.

[zoompie]

REAL solo queue ... for anybody at anytime... teams matching based on MMr .. solo que for RATED 2s and 3s, AND RATED bgs ... everyone will play pvp even more this way.. it will make pvp alive << this will make even casual people get in for a quick game with a chance for those event's good rewards ... and you can enable the pvp achievements so everyone can get them the right way from real rated 3s and rated bgs .. and for your seasons add bigger rewards even.

having rated bgs with high AP and gear rewards plus mounts will make every player play them .. this will make the PVP scene here in freakz very healthy EVEN if there are some bugs here and there with classes and mechanics .. people outside wow freakz community will be drawn here because solo queue is a dream for every seasoned and casual pvp player since wow pvp became a thing.



Till the dirges of his hope that melancholy burden bore Of 'never nevermore