[FIXED] [Mage] Ignite

[Shocker]

I can't bug it:

Code:

Magu's Pyroblast hits Ebon Knight's Training Dummy for 13613 Fire.(15817 Overkill) (Critical) Magu's Pyroblast hits Ebon Knight's Training Dummy for 13613 Fire.(15989 Overkill) (Critical) Ebon Knight's Training Dummy suffers 10801 Fire damage from Magu's Ignite. Ebon Knight's Training Dummy suffers 10801 Fire damage from Magu's Ignite. Magu's Ignite dissipates from Ebon Knight's Training Dummy.

2 instant pyroblasts one after another, 30k damage each one, 60k damage total
Ignite ticks for 10k two times for a total of 20k.

Any ideas how to get it deal "insane" ticks?

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[enjank]

It's gonna be harder now because you fixed Combustion. But since server needs to be restarted for that fix to work I did just a little bit of testing:
First attempt was simple just couple crits (~30k) and I got 11k ignite.
Second attempt was with Combustion and Heroism which resulted in 63k ignite. That's with 6.7k Spell Power, 14% Haste and 26% crit so you can imagine what's happening during raids.

It's all because of a lot of crits in a short period of time. I assume Ignite gets that big because of too low diminishing.

Best way to get high ignite is to get double Hot Streak which is 2 Fireball crits => Instant Pyroblast (has to crit) => Fireball crit => Pyroblast. Heroism is suggested just so ignite doesn't wear off.

Now I don't really know whether it should be like that but for instance during Halfus encounter if all drakes and whelps are dead damage taken by boss is increased by 500% but Ignite is increased by 1000% that's because you deal let's say 150k from Fireball so ignite should tick for 40% of that damage which is 60k but instead it ticks for 60000x2=120k and if you manage to get double Hot Streak that will result in insane Ignite ticks and on top of that if you use Combustion then damage used to get (until recent Combustion fix) even higher (managed to get 15kk ignite).

[Radical]

The best way of stacking ignite:
-Cast scorch/fireball/pyrblat ( each one will do) until u get a hotstreak proc.
- when you get the hot streak proc shoot the pyrblast and wait for it to hit(stay close to the target) if it crit and it gives you another hotstreak- shoot a pyroblast again and wait until it hits, if it crits again and gives you hot strak - shoot another pyrblast and so on until you stop criting and youl see the ignite at the end-over 40k like the one in my picture.
Its hard to do because it depends on your luck(and crit chance).
Shocker- try to give yourself 100% crit chance on a char and cast Pyroblasts(hotstreaks) until they don't proc hotstreak- then at the end you will see the ignite dmg(i think its the best way to test it).

[Shocker]

Allybetrayer wrote:

Shocker- try to give yourself 100% crit chance on a char and cast Pyroblasts(hotstreaks) until they don't proc hotstreak- then at the end you will see the ignite dmg(i think its the best way to test it).

That's why I already did, it correctly deals 40% (33% in my case) of the total damage taken.
For example if I instantly hit with 10 pyroblats, all crits, 10k each (100k total), ignite will tick for a total of 40k damage. Are you saying this is not the correct behavior and that it should tick only for 40% of 10k (last pyroblast, even if they were all in the same time) and not for 40% of 100k (all pyroblasts) ?

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[BlackSun]

Ignite stacks each time you refresh it, at least this was the behaviour in WotLK, and i doubt it was changed in Cata. So it should tick for 40% of 100k.

[Radical]

Shocker wrote:

Allybetrayer wrote: Shocker- try to give yourself 100% crit chance on a char and cast Pyroblasts(hotstreaks) until they don't proc hotstreak- then at the end you will see the ignite dmg(i think its the best way to test it). That's why I already did, it correctly deals 40% (33% in my case) of the total damage taken. For example if I instantly hit with 10 pyroblats, all crits, 10k each (100k total), ignite will tick for a total of 40k damage. Are you saying this is not the correct behavior and that it should tick only for 40% of 10k (last pyroblast, even if they were all in the same time) and not for 40% of 100k (all pyroblasts) ?

Da asta spun.
Dam un pyroblast- 10k crit(procuie hotstreak)(ignite 4k)
Castam alt pyroblast instant 10kcrit(iar procuie hotstreak)(igniteul nou va fi tot 4k peste cel vechi, nu il va staca).-blizzlike
Exemplu de ignite stack pe blizz(considerat si pe blizz un bug, dar doar asa se poate stacka igniteul):
Avem hotstreak pe noi deja(deci avem un instant pyroblast).
Castam fireball si imediat cum terminam de castat fireball castam pyrblast, care e instant si pleaca cu fireball deodata(ambele spelluri find in aer), acestea ajung in target si dau crit amandoua(10k+10k), igniteul va fi 4k+4k=8k- igniteul se stacheaza doar daca spellurile sunt in aer.
Asta e cam singurul site care l.am gasit mai uptodate care sa ofere informatii despre cum functioneaza igniteul.
http://www.wowpedia.org/Ignite
La known bugs explica fenomenul ignite stack
Consider the case where extra ignite ticks are appearing. The goal here is to time a fireball cast so that Ignite ticks on the target while a Fireball is mid-flight. In this case, a Fireball travel time of 1.0 seconds is assumed.
Deci daca ai aruncat toate cele 10 pyroblasturi in acelas timp- erau toate in aer inainte ca primul sa atinga targetu= atunci se stacheaza igniteul pentru toate.
Daca arunci pe rand si astepti sa atinga targetul pe rand fiecare pyroblast in parte= atunci ultimul ignite se va pune peste penultimul(overwrite).( aici pe server se continua sa se stacheaze...cea ce nu ar trebuii)

[enjank]

It most definitely has to tick for for 40% of 100k (all pyroblasts). I assume that the problem with Ignite was: "Sometimes a single tick of Ignite will do its damage and then also be added to a second Ignite if it lands just before the tick. This means that one or both ticks of Ignite can do twice the expected damage. The condition for this bug seems to be precise timing...". I honestly believe that this "precise timing" was caused by Combustion crits although it still needs to be tested with crits landing before and between Ignite ticks which is really hard. As a matter of fact I'd leave this discussion for some time just to see how is Ignite doing after Combustion fix.

[Radical]

enjank wrote:

It most definitely has to tick for for 40% of 100k (all pyroblasts). I assume that the problem with Ignite was: "Sometimes a single tick of Ignite will do its damage and then also be added to a second Ignite if it lands just before the tick. This means that one or both ticks of Ignite can do twice the expected damage. The condition for this bug seems to be precise timing...". I honestly believe that this "precise timing" was caused by Combustion crits although it still needs to be tested with crits landing before and between Ignite ticks which is really hard. As a matter of fact I'd leave this discussion for some time just to see how is Ignite doing after Combustion fix.

Dude i just posted on the other page 3 screen shots without combustion with a ignite of 80k(40k tick every 2 seconds for 4 seconds) and you say its because of combustion, Its NOT!.
Combustion did that insane dmg because of ignite- because you can stack ignite so freaking high like 40k that when you hit combustion you get 55-70k tic combstion( and thats just on a target dummy).

[ZickZak]

Shocker wrote:

Allybetrayer wrote: Shocker- try to give yourself 100% crit chance on a char and cast Pyroblasts(hotstreaks) until they don't proc hotstreak- then at the end you will see the ignite dmg(i think its the best way to test it). That's why I already did, it correctly deals 40% (33% in my case) of the total damage taken. For example if I instantly hit with 10 pyroblats, all crits, 10k each (100k total), ignite will tick for a total of 40k damage. Are you saying this is not the correct behavior and that it should tick only for 40% of 10k (last pyroblast, even if they were all in the same time) and not for 40% of 100k (all pyroblasts) ?

PMed you few reports that I ve gathered over the last days. Maybe you ll find something interesting there.

[Zohlomg]

@Shocker, 10 pyroblasts of 10k in the same second, it's normal for ignite to deal a total of 40k damage.

Cast many-LOTS of pyroblast(so fast that the ignite can't get the time to tick), ignite will only start to deal damage when you stop casting and will deal 40% of the TOTAL damage dealt.

[enjank]

Shocker wrote:

Allybetrayer wrote: Shocker- try to give yourself 100% crit chance on a char and cast Pyroblasts(hotstreaks) until they don't proc hotstreak- then at the end you will see the ignite dmg(i think its the best way to test it). That's why I already did, it correctly deals 40% (33% in my case) of the total damage taken. For example if I instantly hit with 10 pyroblats, all crits, 10k each (100k total), ignite will tick for a total of 40k damage. Are you saying this is not the correct behavior and that it should tick only for 40% of 10k (last pyroblast, even if they were all in the same time) and not for 40% of 100k (all pyroblasts) ?

It should tick for 40% of 100k (all pyroblasts) but the problem is that every single time you land a crit ignite refreshes and just doesn't tick which in the end results in insane ignite damage. I'm pretty sure that ignite shouldn't stack like that but I can't find any proofs. I think ignite should start ticking after some time regardless of amount of crits I base my opinion on this video: https://youtube.com/watch?v=-nMeszeX-PY:


You can see that this Mage has 100% crit and ignite is stacking but yet still it ticks every 2 seconds. It's simple to understand because if ignite refreshed everytime you land a crit before ignite tick then there would be no point standing away from boss and I haven't seen any mage standing close to a boss in retail.

[Risetta]

guys, that is 4.2 what enjank posted, video was uploaded on 21 Jul 2011 ! that means that is 4.2, that page somebody showed "combustion can now crit" was fake, why combustion did crit in 4.2 if it can crit in 4.3 firstly? it does not make sense, do not make me laugh if you bite that what somebody showed a fake change note. that video is the correct proof for combustion can crit and used to crit before ^^.

correct patch notes can be found here! another should be PTR which is not definitive !! shocker you should take into consideration and undo combustion changes.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/4-3-0 , i checked back all updates from 4.0 to 4.3.3 there is nothing about combustion crit!

combustion can crit, and it did crit on 4.0.6, here is another video

https://youtube.com/watch?v=5pzd-pjVc3A:



next to the chat panel, you can see damages, damage with * damage * is critical, and combustion did criticals. this video was uploaded on 07 Feb 2011 !
that guy was using combuston around 1 min, and you can see non crit dmg of combustion was 39xx and crit was 8xxx between *, so that is crit.

ignite stack what cause bug, not combustion crit, ignite should not stack, there is a feature called ignite munching that means your ignite loss, it has no time to do all ticks because another crit trigger another ignite and overwrite previous one, known bug and blizzard said they won't redesign mechanic of ignite till next expansion.

summary: combustion can crit, ignite bug because of stack, and of story ^^


*EDIT: here we go again: another video, uploaded on 18 Jan 2011

https://youtube.com/watch?v=qArci35dHjU:



battle text at the middle, left column crit right non crit, non crit combustion dmg 10k~ crit 20k~, what are we talking about guys? UNDO that combustion crit change asap!!!!!


**EDIT: i did some more research and found this one on elitist jerks.

"When an Ignite is applied where it already existed, the event time of the next tick is not changed. The duration of Ignite becomes time_to_next_tick plus 4sec and the stack size becomes 3. "

quote can be found here: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t110326-cataclysm_fire_mage_compendium/#Crit:_Ignite_Munching

my theory is still that, when combustion do crits that all trigger ignite and thats why it stack too much plus counting the nuke criticals like fireball or pyro and so on during the dots period, but one for sure, combustion can do crits, and it triggers ignite. i do not know what kind of patch note was what that guy posted before, but what i posted there can be nothing found about combustion crit, and you can see in 2 videos combustion can, and should crit, if ignite hidden stack is 3, then it should not bug anymore. just need to do proper changes about ignite 3 stack limit and allow combustion to crit again.
uhm and yes it is true, best time for using combustion on official server is when you have fireball crit and followed by instant pyro crit, and it is not a bug.

PS: read my next post too, there are lot more things about my statements.

[Radical]

What i read from wowpedia is that ignite is replaced if the crit has landed, so its kinda impossible to stack ignite for more then 2 spells(maybe 3...with fireblast).
Best case scenario:
Cast pyroblast1.
Casting finished.
Cast pyroblast2.
Pyroblast1 crits10k(hotstreak proc)(ignite 4k).
casting finished.(pyroblast2)
Cast Pyroblast3.(instant)
Casting finished(pyroblast3)
Pyroblast2 and Pyroblast3 crit for 10k each(the 4k ignite from pyroblast1 is replaced by 8 k ignite from pyroblast 2 and 3).
The ignite stacks because they(pyroblasts) were both in air before they landed-thats what blizzard calls a bug.
Freakz scenario:
Cast pyroblast1.
casting finished pyroblast1
cast pyroblast2.
pyroblast1 crits for 10k(4k ignite)(hotstreak).
casting finished pyroblast2.
cast pyroblast3(instant cast)
finished cast pyroblast3.(at this point pyroblast 2 and 3 are in air at the same time).
pyroblast2 crits for 10k(4kignite)(hotstreak)
pyroblast3 crits for 10k(4kigntie +4kignite=8k ignite)
cast pyroblast4(instant)
finished cast pyroblast4.
pyroblast 4 crits for 10k(4k+4k+4K= 12k ignite)(hotstreak)
cast pyroblast 5(instant)
finished cast pyroblast5.
pyroblast 5 crits for 10k(4k+4K+4k+4k=16k ignite)
etc.
They stack even though they don't travel in air at the same time...

[ZickZak]

Risetta wrote:

i checked back all updates from 4.0 to 4.3.3 there is nothing about combustion crit! summary: combustion can crit, ignite bug because of stack, and of story ^^

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_4.3.0
http://www.wowpedia.org/Combustion
http://wowdata.org/classes/brief-fire-mage-guide-patch-4-3/


You no sey mister! I check updates too veri hard and I find this, oke? You mess with us you mess with the fire, and of story, oke? No kritikal much infront 4.3, oke?
*russian accent out*

[Risetta]

ZickZak wrote:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_4.3.0 http://www.wowpedia.org/Combustion http://wowdata.org/classes/brief-fire-mage-guide-patch-4-3/ You no sey mister! I check updates too veri hard and I find this, oke? You mess with us you mess with the fire, and of story, oke? No kritikal much infront 4.3, oke? *russian accent out*

i am not messing up anybody, everybody must be blind then, do not you see crits of combustion on 2 videos i posted and on that guy posted 4.2 alysrazor video?? combustion (x tick, x crit) ?
here is a screenshot from that video 4.2 firelands alysrazor what a guy posted before 3-4 posts:

it does not make any sense, if combustion can not crit till 4.3 why it crits in 4.2 lol, start using your brain instead of your rage.

and you are free to check this:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/4-3-0 here from 4.0 to 4.3.3

if you find anyting in minor and major patch THERE that must be trustable, some wikipedia site is not authentic lol, everybody can edit them,
by the way, let me know, because i can not find any there.

i want fire mages to work as it should, i do not want to get nerfed to the ground because of some kids are whining about op classes, and no sir, did not mix up nerf with fix...

mate, dont get me wrong, i did not say fire mage is ok now, no its not, but not crit of combustion is the source of ignite bug, ignite stack should limit to 3 then it wont bug...

*EDIT:
more proof moreeeeeeeeeeeeeee:
http://old.wowhead.com/spell=11129 (THIS IS OLD WOWHEAD, SO NOT 4.3)
check comments, specially the 30th one: "Combustion's dot ticks are capable of critting and you also get more ticks the more haste you have. "

that comment has been sent in this time: on 2010/10/15 (Patch 4.0.1)

soryr for my wierd style, im getting obsessed. :'(

btw, why there is a hotfix that everybody thinks combustion can crit from that time, when 4.3 has been released and before on PTR aswell combustion bugged and could not crit, there was a hotfix which made it capable for crit again... and here is the proof (link) for this statement of mine: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3278810549