GMs locking well-reasoned, appropriate and valid threads

[algebrata]

I would suggest GMs not lock perfectly valid threads.

https://forum.wow-freakz.com/Golden-Lotus-t434652.html

I'm not sure why it would seem appropriate to lock this thread. There is clearly a problem with end game mats on this realm due to the farm at half hill not being operable.

To respond to a well reasoned and documented thread by tossing out "well retail realms have 100X more people and I know where all the spawn points are" as a GM is hardly acceptable as either rationally dealing with a problem or even realistically realizing there is a problem.

I have created a guild fully aware of the short comings of this server and I am willing and capable of dealing with them and making something of this. If this server's GMs response to clear issues with clear constructive fixes, is going to be this outrageous and childish.....I can always leave and fold this guild.

If Devs read this, I will work with you, but you need to get these guys under control. Totally childish and unreasonable.

[LethalFactorLK]

@evydence

you do know people fill the market with stacks of golden lotuses daily maybe at that time there were 6 but as you can see there are over 20 stacks of golden lotuses on the market. And yes people sell them individually on market and global also.

[algebrata]

Yes I see those. the fact that there is suddenly stacks of golden lotus on the Ah does not detract from the problem that golden lotus was readily available from the farm at halfhill. It does not detract from the fact that all basic mats for MOP were readily made from the farm at halfhill. Notwithstanding this sudden abundance, the farm at halfhill was a key component of the game which the loss of, needs to be addressed...despite this sudden miraculous abundance.

Update @ 27-08-2016, 06:23:31

To even argue that that this economy is fine despite the farm is to ignore the obvious. I have posted what was usually gathered from the farm. You have seen this, yes? You played during MOP, yes? What is going on in this economy isn't even close to mirroring what happened in MOP. Does it seem normal to you?

I understand the hyper inflation, what i can't wrap my head around is the denial of the obvious. What does this gain you?

Update @ 27-08-2016, 06:39:34

Further,

To even off-handedily defend the actions of this other GM by trying to support unfounded and bizarre claims (Seriously....even one person on the farm at halfhill would double the current economies output of GL) You want facts? read them. I posted them. You guys deal with these difficulties. I don't like what I'm seeing right now. I can easily go elsewhere.


Ellipsea-Geometra-Algebrata-Diametra

Guild logic

from nostalrius and primal wow

[madau]

To not misunderstand the actions and the words of my fellow gms i'll just put this in another light for you so you can see it a little better through our eyes.

1st of all - the ways available to get the golden lotus at the moment are more than enough to sustain the needs for all the server population.
2nd of all - over inflating the market with such mats (be it GL or any other) will drop their value of them and of the professions that use them, making it a way less stable economy since some other professions will have higher prices. Judging by your char names i'm pretty sure you can do the math
3rd of all - any shortcomings that you see at this server are very welcomed and I want to see them all, because being a part of this server for over 6 years I might have lost some of the "out of the box perspective". PM me with them.

We totally understand and want this to be a perfect game experience and we will always take in consideration anything that is brought to our attention that is not close to blizzlike experience. We are aiming to that but up to there are a few more steps that we need to take. We've made a lot of mistakes in the past that we are learning from, we are maybe making some mistakes now that we will be learning from in the future. But between those mistakes we are doing our best to help have a good time on this server around 5k ppl/ day.

We are not trying to make this game "ours", we are only setting some restrictions that will be loose at some point in time. We had a bad experience with a totally bad economy in the past, we are adjusting it as we can now.

All you have as suggestion, as long as it is based on how the blizz experience was, is welcomed and looked for. Of course, some of them will be implemented rather sooner than later but we'd love it if you stick with us and give us a hand.
I'd love it if you will, sometime in the future, sign as "Guild Logic from Freakz"



Vengeance is in my heart, death in my hand,
Blood and revenge are hammering in my head.

[algebrata]

I appreciate that you have thoughtfully responded to my post. I am wondering why this server's response to a clear problem is entirely "head-in-the sand" though. The current situation does not reflect a "blizz-like" experience. It does not even reflect a "reasonable" experience.

The farm at halfhill was an integral part of the game. Not having it, is like not having the PvP vendors or like not having an entire MOP zone. It was used not only as a generator for all of the key MOP mats, but as a buffer for any short comings of the economy. Currently, you can look to the abundance of something like windwool cloth and see..yes it is at the hyper-inflated costs of this server, but it is AVAILABLE en masse, therefore the price is right. Yes I can do the math.

The absence of our ability to generate golden lotus effect several other key parts of the economy. As you'll recall, Blizz was very mindful of the farms powers, they tinkered with it's returns over the course of the xpac because of how it drove the economy. To just outright deny the returns I have posted from the farm is to do a disservice to what was intended by blizz.

I am telling you, this is not a healthy, functioning economy. It's topsy turvy. There should be enough golden lotus to effect other portions of the economy. I know what I am talking about, I averaged 500-700 auctions every day during MOP and I am intimately aware of how it worked.

If we want to be blizzlike, we should act in the way Blizzard intended. Do you see how many golden lotus just one person could generate per day during MOP? This was intended. The lack of it and a free flowing economy is stagnating and not the full experience of MOP.

I am here to help others get the full MOP experience. At this point I do not see that staff is desiring of the same thing.

Read the numbers I posted from the farm and extrapolate that over the current pop and tell me this is the best you can do.

Update @ 27-08-2016, 13:22:19

Bottom line..I am attempting to stock my guild's GV for raiding and it should not be this difficult. It was not so during MOP. The farm's ability to create golden lotus on an individual level and on a large scale, global level was fully intended by blizz. The current economy does not reflect this.

Update @ 27-08-2016, 13:29:55

Also, I have posted other areas of immediate concern. I'm not sure why these have not been addressed. Your explanation of market valuations means you atleast have an idea of what is going on. Cooling down a hyper inflated market is not a bad thing. There should be no qualms on your part about whether a market segment is cooled down to reasonable levels. It should be of concern to staff, when someone new discovers this realm, looking at the AH is a big concern. Any major reviewer on Youtube is going to comment on it. Anyone that played MOP is going to look at this and cringe.

[Evydence]

The problem is that we can't do that now, because of 2 factors, 1 because there are over 100 people that have over 920k gold per char and over 50 people who have full gold, this isn't a stabile economy, and if we do what you want we could make it more blizzlike, but after that I would see like 500 people with 900k, and the economy (ah) would be destroyed, everything would be at a high price, and I don't think that I am the only one who don't want to see a flask at 5k gold, or more, because it would be stupid, and no, if people have more money the price won't be less expensive, it will be hight, because think like this, I have 3 chars with full gold ok, I go to ah an someone random put a stack of flask with 50k, normal that I have a lot of golds I will buy them, and after that maybe another and another, etc, or there are a lot of flask with 4k, I will take them all, and people will see that, and they will start to put at the same price or higher, because of the one who bought that, and a lot of people don't really farm, and they live with 10k or 30k gold, how it suppose to buy a flask for 4k or 3k when I have only 30k? it's like 10 flask and puf, my money are gone, and maybe I don't have the time like others to farm, then I will just start to blame Freakz Staff (because whenever something goes wrong, is our fault...) because the inflation from cata is back on panda, only players that played on cata here know about that inflation, where you could see flask with 5k or even 7k at the end of the expansion, AT THE END, not the start when you rly need it.

I gave you an example with flasks, but it could be with food, mounts, pets, crafter gears, etc.


You need to understand that we don't have the same population like Blizzard had back in Pandaria, and I still can't understand this "I want to have a lot of golds", for what? you can't buy game time here, you can just buy a mount, a weapon or some crafted gear, and for what? you can easily get better gear in Timeless Isle, honestly we can't bring the economy from cata, I played on cata, I know how is to don't have money, but back there I was farming all day and still no gold, because flask and what I wanted for a raid was a imense high price.




If you gonna hit the king you're better kill the king

[algebrata]

I totally get this isn't the same pop. But the ability to generate items on the farm was not only fully intended by blizz, It was the means by which to stabilize the economy. What you are saying is totally backwards.

More base mats=more stable economy, not less.

The reason people are at cap is because of hyper inflation. It's easy to get to cap here, hell...I'll do it in no time.

We need to cool down the economy, the way to do that is to increase supply and lower demand. You're suggesting the opposite which will only create more people at cap. I'll be one of those my friend in the current situation.

This "it's fine" mentality has to go. It's not fine. Do you really think Blizz wasn't aware of the farm's capabilities?

[Frostfang]

I have an alchemist character. On that character i think i have 5-6 stacks of golden lotus. 2 stacks or more can be farmed in 1 raid lock out, just by doing LFRs and people do those a lot. Thats 2 stacks of flasks as a "side effect" from farming sigils.

Freakz has tried to stabilize the economy in many different ways since cataclysm and it always ended up the same, with prices crazy high. They wiped all gold several times. It doesnt matter what they do, even if they fix that farm, people will find something else to demand crazy amount of gold for and destroy the economy all over again.

Lets think it your way. You put, idk, flasks for example, you put 10 stacks of some flask for 100 each, because you want things cheaper right. I will just simply buy everything, and put it back for a higher price, for 2k gold. Now you dont have the gold, and you dont have the flasks.

Farm will get fixed eventually, and it will increase amount of mats on the market, there's no doubt about that. But lets be honest, its not gonna fix the economy here.

Guardian Druid Tanking Guide

[algebrata]

No, I don't want things cheaper. I want things to be appropriate to the economy. the availability of base mats was well thought out by blizz in MOP. The farm at halfhill was specifically designed to buffer the market. The current situation neither reflects what was intended by blizz nor an economistic viewpoint of supply and demand.

[Frostfang]

This isnt blizzard, and you can never expect such things to be same here as there. You cannot change entire populations behavior towards this. The economy is up to population, it has nothing to do with Staff. Staff played their role and tried to change things, but population is too stubborn to change.
Maybe you dont like it, and any newcomer wont like it either, but we all learned to play and live with it. Its just how people here are used to play. You cannot change that over night.

Guardian Druid Tanking Guide

[algebrata]

That may be the most reasonable post thus far. It's the way things are and deal with it. I totally get that. It doesn't need to be this way. And blizz set the groundwork for why and how. The obvious fix is totally...well obvious.

[Frostfang]

When you think that this server was purely romanian only a year ago. I can say, we improved a lot lately, as server and community itself and we wont stop improving. More new people are coming with each day, and they all have different opinions and suggestions. You must understand that Staff listens to you all and its nice to see some fresh things, but we cannot simply satisfy everyone. Someone will always blame us for something, and thats ok, people are different and they are supposed to be.

As i said, Farm will get fixed for sure, and it will bring more mats to the table, but it wont really change economy here. I understand that it doesnt have to be this way, but it just is.

Guardian Druid Tanking Guide