[REJECTED] [General] Armor/Versatility vs Physical Damage In PvP

[Iplayferal]

So both guys in the screenshot have 10% versa and 14% armor (mage) , 36% armor (dk).



The dk got 22% more damage reduction from armor and instead of taking 1041 damage, he is taking 988.

Now if you want to have fun, go make a holy pala bis , full versa + versa sockets, 50% damage reduction from armor, and you will see how you do negative damage on him as a melee (he can literally afk 20 seconds and you wont kill him).

[Amnezx]

I can't see what is wrong here. First shred hitted the dk for 988 damage. and the second shred hitted the mage for 1335 damage. That is roughly 24% damage difference. 36% (DKs armor) - 14% (Mages) = 22%. the 2% can be due to versa difference between those two targets.

[Iplayferal]

I just said the versa is the same for both targets and the small numbers can get higher with higher gear/cooldowns etc. That 50 damage when i had no weapon/gear on, can get up to 500 when i equip my gear/weapon and up to 1k with cooldowns (1.5k when crits). Armor it does reduce more then it shows.

I did not had gear on to avoid any buffs/procs/damage boosts.

[Amnezx]

What 50 damage? I am talking about shred. You talk about RIP damage and melee hit damage which is different.

Update @ 24-02-2021, 16:07:32

RIP hitted dk for 823, and melee hitted mage for 878

[Iplayferal]

Amnezx wrote:

What 50 damage? I am talking about shred. You talk about RIP damage and melee hit damage which is different. Update @ 24-02-2021, 16:07:32 RIP hitted dk for 823, and melee hitted mage for 878

Shred should off hitted 1041 and did 988 whats so hard to understand?

[Amnezx]

Iplayferal wrote:

Amnezx wrote: What 50 damage? I am talking about shred. You talk about RIP damage and melee hit damage which is different. Update @ 24-02-2021, 16:07:32 RIP hitted dk for 823, and melee hitted mage for 878 Shred should off hitted 1041 and did 988 whats so hard to understand?

How did you calculate that?

What's your base damage of Shred, and we can calculate base off that.

[Iplayferal]

Brah I am not here to answer to you.... The 22% more dmg reduction that the dk have reduced my damage by 26%. Now i let you do the math for yourself how much damage you lose vs a full geared hpala with 50% damage reduction from armor and 25% passive versa, when you equip your gear.

I did 1335 on mage with 10% versa and 14% armor, and I am doing 988 on DK with 10% versa and 36% armor. I lost 4% damage right there.

[Amnezx]

Iplayferal wrote:

Brah I am not here to answer to you.... The 22% more dmg reduction that the dk have reduced my damage by 26%. Now i let you do the math for yourself how much damage you lose vs a full geared hpala with 50% damage reduction from armor and 25% passive versa.

As I told you, the 2% can vary because of a lot of factors (damage in general has a bit or randomness in it), and also due to vers% diffference (I am 100% sure that both of them had 10.something, and even 0.30% change in versatility can alter the damage).

[Iplayferal]

It is 4% already, what 2% are you talking about ??? and the damage reduction from versa is half of the damage increase. The versa diff was 0.2 for the mage and armor 0.1 for dk and I still lost 4% damage. Again if you type "i dont know that i dont know that" why do you keep posting? Are you on REP hunt or whats the deal?

[Amnezx]

Iplayferal wrote:

It is 4% already, what 2% are you talking about ??? and the damage reduction from versa is half of the damage increase. The versa diff was 0.2 for the mage and armor 0.1 for dk and I still lost 4% damage. Again if you type "i dont know that i dont know that" why do you keep posting? Are you on REP hunt or whats the deal?

Because it can be a lot of factors taken into consideration and versatility is one of it. I am a melee class too and a good portion of my damage is physical, but I don't think that armor has problems reducing it.

[Iplayferal]

Yes you have 1 ability that does physical damage, the other 80% of your damage... is shadow... big deal.

There might be a wrong interaction with versa/armor vs physical attacks ? If any GM is able to test it would be great.

[Marmeros]

Play a better spec maybe you'll deal more damage

[Amnezx]

Iplayferal wrote:

Yes you have 1 ability that does physical damage, the other 80% of your damage... is shadow big deal.

I guess you don't know the classes that well, but Unholy DK has a BIG portion of its damage Physical.

Melee hits - 17-20% of the total damage (playing with full haste builds pays up)
Pet melee hits - around 10-12%
Festering 6-9%
Pet Claw - 3-5%
Abomination - 3%
Skulker 2-3.5%
Army of the Dead (Apocalypse) melee - 2-2.5%
Army of the Dead (Apocalypse) Claw - 2%

I'll let you to just do the math here

[Iplayferal]

Can you please stop posting useless things that aint helping this topic ?

[Amnezx]

https://imgur.com/a/GlvoL9K


DH has 20.66% damage reduction from armor and takes the lowest 2606 Damage from my melee swing.
Paladin has 33.45% damage reduction from armor and takes the lowest 2109 damage.

I have removed any azerite armor and trinkets in order to be as accurate as I could

33.45% - 20.66% = 12.79 (difference between those two targets) = the paladin should take with roughly 12.79% less damage from my melee swings, but in stead he takes 2109/2606 = 8% less damage

2606 x 12.79% = 333,3 (the paladin should take less damage by this amount). - The blow should be 2606-333,3 = 2303 the paladin takes less damage than our calculation with roughly 200.

I have made the tests with both of targets having 0% versatility and this indeed could be a proof that the amount of physical damage reduced by armor is not correctly shown in the character panel, or there indeed is a bug in the formula which calculates physical damage reduction.

Update @ 24-02-2021, 17:26:35

Amnezx wrote:

https://imgur.com/a/GlvoL9K DH has 20.66% damage reduction from armor and takes the lowest 2606 Damage from my melee swing. Paladin has 33.45% damage reduction from armor and takes the lowest 2109 damage. I have removed any azerite armor and trinkets in order to be as accurate as I could 33.45% - 20.66% = 12.79 (difference between those two targets) = the paladin should take with roughly 12.79% less damage from my melee swings, but in stead he takes 2109/2606 = 8% less damage 2606 x 12.79% = 333,3 (the paladin should take less damage by this amount). - The blow should be 2606-333,3 = 2303 the paladin takes less damage than our calculation with roughly 200. I have made the tests with both of targets having 0% versatility and this indeed could be a proof that the amount of physical damage reduced by armor is not correctly shown in the character panel, or there indeed is a bug in the formula which calculates physical damage reduction.

LE: If someone has the formula for normalized weapon damage @BFA so I can do more calculations.

I have found the damage reduction formula for armor here: https://blog.askmrrobot.com/diminishing-returns-other-bfa-tank-formulas/
And it states: Final Damage = Raw Damage * (1 – Boss Armor / (Boss Armor + K)) For 120 lvl player K = 6300