[FIXED] [Multiple] Vengeance vs. DoTs and damage modifiers

[madau]

WoW Freakz spell link: Vengeance
Bug description: Vengeance is not getting increased based on damage modifiers.
If a boss is casting a spell that adds a debuff on the player making him to take increase dmg from specific sources than the added % is not calculated into the vengeance.

Below you can see the tests that i made with U A where the debuff, Self Doubt, is increasing the damage taken by 40% for each stack he has.
The base amount value for the UA is 400k, that would mean it should give 6k vengeance. On top of that each UA comes in the same second with a melee attack ranged between 450k to 550k, so another 6750 to 8250 vengeance, for a total between 12750 to 14250 vengeance.

On the picture below you will see a UA that does an insane amount of damage but the vengeance is the same. When the UA landed it was on 23 stacks of Self Doubt, meaning 920% increase, that would be 3.68 M damage. For that single attack it should be 55200 Vengeance, but it is the same as if there was no increase to that damage taken.

To conclude: Damage increase debuffs are not taken in consideration for when vengeance is calculated.

Below you can find proof with it on our server, the same happens to all the debuffs. You will also find a video with a druid that is solo tanking Iron Juggernaut having up to 900k vengeance, meanwhile on freakz there's no way in getting on that fight more than 150k vengeance.

Proof:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=C_ED0qC0S98:





Vengeance is in my heart, death in my hand,
Blood and revenge are hammering in my head.

[Magnus06]

Confirmed as i already had suspicions 'bout that back then : https://forum.wow-freakz.com/view-post-5317310.html

Basically you can view it like this (sort of, take with a grain of salt, logic is subjective) :

Currently ==> Damage incoming > Vengeance gain calculated > Applying damage modifiers > Damage dealt
How it "should" work ==> Damage incoming > Applying damage modifiers > Damage dealt > Vengeance gain calculated

[Shocker]

I want some more info on this. Vengeance is based on UNMITIGATED damage so the

Magnus06 wrote:

How it "should" work ==> Damage incoming > Applying damage modifiers > Damage dealt > Vengeance gain calculated

is incorrect because it has to be before damage modifiers.

You're saying that it should be BEFORE damage DECREASE modifiers but AFTER damage INCREASE modifiers? That makes no sense and sounds extremely complicated when it comes to core scripting. Some more proof?

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[Supmark]

Shockeru you should look at it from different perspective it should come BEFORE players modifiers but AFTER boss itself modifiers such as debuffs etc.

[Shocker]

Supmark wrote:

Shockeru you should look at it from different perspective it should come BEFORE players modifiers but AFTER boss itself modifiers such as debuffs etc.

We don't "fix" "bugs" based on guessing, but on actual proof

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[Supmark]

I'm not guessing i just made what they said more clear at least that was my goal.

[Joshbang]

Confirmed aswell! Vengance incrases only by autoattacks of bosses, it applies before damage modifiers for example bosus spell https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=145212&&name=unleashed-anger puts a debuff https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=146124&&name=self-doubt
not calculated anymore after you get 1 stack + of the debuff , also vengeance does not incrase from boss abilities that modify their autoattacks https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=142879&&name=blood-rage Malkorok Blood Rage! This should be fixed considering all that proof on videos from retail WoW , tanks gaining more than 300k+ on SOO Heroic bosses , and here being too low , proof can be shown by using vengeance meters addons and capturing low levels of vengeance from boss abilities 100k -

Update @ 02-03-2017, 19:10:58

Shocker wrote:

Supmark wrote: Shockeru you should look at it from different perspective it should come BEFORE players modifiers but AFTER boss itself modifiers such as debuffs etc. We don't "fix" "bugs" based on guessing, but on actual proof

None of us is basing it on guessings , proof can be shown by using vengeance meters addons and capturing low levels of vengeance from boss abilities, and youtube retail wow 5.4.8 videos and streams of tanking vengeance metters being high on vengance,and damage done being overall higher aswell

[Shocker]

You're still guessing: "because vengeance is higher on retail => it means we are right and this is the cause"

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[Joshbang]

Shocker wrote:

You're still guessing: "because vengeance is higher on retail => it means we are right and this is the cause"

Well Shocker, how can you proove high vengeance on freakz when it does not incrase on the right ammounts? Other fixed bugs have the same standard of proving like the one of this topic, enough players have test it including me , you can try to test it youself aswell, that calculation of vengeance is not working properly when a 3 milion hit gives you as much vengeance as a 100k autoattack, proof is above , cant say anything else , i just want this major bug fixed

[Khallion]

Bug confirmed and should be fixed ASAP.

[Werewiki]

Confirmed

[Magnus06]

Nice, a bunch of random people called by friends to confirm a bug without saying much.

I may not find out the proof @Shocker but i'll try but to me it's more than guessing as a tank main it's more about logic. But there's one missing word in the sentence you quoted from me, it's rather "Vengeance in based on unmitigated damage taken." it that helps understanding it any better.

If i find nothing, please make another global poll like for the partial transfer ... Just kidding.

Overall purpose of Vengeance is to make tank scaling up with the actual fight and other DPS to keep up the rythm so let's say against Iron Juggernaut that goes cresendo in damage, if my vengeance gain remains the same as when the fight was a T0 as when i reach T300 then it don't scale. There's more at stake for some classes than pure DPS and threat generation, there's healing, shields and other stuff that relies on AP ratios that help survive better if you have a correct amount of vengeance.

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Edit:
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http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Vengeance_(paladin_talent)

"Vengeance is a passive paladin ability learned at level 10 for those with the Protection specialization. A small percentage of unmitigated damage taken is converted to attack power for a short period of time."

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Vengeance_(tanking_bonus)

"Whenever a tank gets hit, Vengeance will give them a stacking attack power buff equal to 5% of the damage done,"

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1199249-So-vengeance-please-explain-me

"Each time you take damage, you gain 2% of the unmitigated damage taken as attack power for 20 sec."

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/news/1073987

"When a tank with one of these talent specs takes damage, she gains an attack power bonus based on the damage taken."


Can't find many much because retarded blizzard name DH tank spec "vengeance" so i don't get the results i want.

[madau]

you people are trashing a valid bug just because you want to be against what Shoker posted when he just wanted to clarify this.
There is no requirement for further proof since the formula clearly states unmitigated. Mitigation is when you are reducing the damage with a passive, active or external spell so the unmitigated damage is the whole damage taken before you apply the mitigation (damage reduction).

For example:
- boss deals 10k damage base attack. if you have no form of mitigation than you take the full 10k. If you add a 20% mitigation than the resulted damage that you take is 8k.
- boss deals 10k damage base attack. if you have no form of mitigation than you take the full 10k. If there is a form of increasing damage taken on you by 100% than you take 20k damage. If you add a 20% mitigation than the resulted damage that you take is 16k.

To conclude, the unmitigated damage is the damage including the increase modifiers before adding the mitigation.
To factor into the vengeance the increase damage modifiers it could multiply the vengeance by the increase mods. So, for the example gave in the first post, for 400k dmg which gives 6k vengeance, with a 920% increase on the damage than the vengeance taken from that single hit should be 920%*6k.



Vengeance is in my heart, death in my hand,
Blood and revenge are hammering in my head.

[MeizNab]

Waiting for a fix asap tenchiu.

[kaorri]

Yo,
Here is what I dug out from the EJ Prot pally guide:

In MoP, whenever a tank is damaged, the tank receives 1.5% of the unmitigated damage taken as AP for 20 seconds (remember that this is unmitigated damage, so before armor, blocking, etc. Expect to get, very roughly, 5% of the damage you actually take as AP) and the total is capped at the tank's health. If there are situations in which you can engineer taking gigantic amounts of damage and survive (using AD, or a mechanic than increases your health and damage taken) you can do very large amounts of damage. Bear in mind that most avoidable damage (dodgeable void zones, for example) generally does not give Vengeance and Vengeance from Critical hits (which should only happen if you are working to make them happen) give reduced Vengeance.

Also

[Ardent Defender] – While active, reduces all damage taken by 20%. Additionally, one attack that would have killed the paladin (must happen while AD is active) will instead heal the paladin for 15% of max health. Note that this does not typically work on environmental effects, such as falling damage, and a few “big hit” boss abilities are able to negate the “save death” ability. However, most abilities do not. Being able to survive a gigantic hit may allow shenanigans with Vengeance stacking since it is now driven by damage taken. 10 second duration, 3 minute cd.

I would consider this as *proof* as EJ are know for their in depth understanding of game mechanics.


Source:
http://web.archive.org/web/20130923121144/http://elitistjerks.com/f76/t133101-prot_5_4_ef_you/#Vengeance

Would seem the formula in the server indeed needs correcting.