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[REJECTED] [Death Knight] Necrotic strike - balans pvp
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Sereth
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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 01:41:45 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

WoW Freakz spell link: Necrotic strike
Bug description: Tinand cont ca avem gear de 5.1, plus ca nu mi se pare normal ca un dk sa bage 300k absorb in 3 secunde... sa incepem:

Mop Patch 5.0.4 (2012-08-28): Weapon damage increased from 100% to 150%, and healing absorbed increased from 70% to 100% of AP.

Urmatorul increase a fost pe 5.2, pe la sfarsit, cum a zis si dreadblade in postul lui:
dreadblade wrote:
Patch 5.2
(hidden hotfix) Later in that patch, since the scaling was very bad, Blizzard decided to increase the absorb amount to 200% AP.


Apoi, Absorbul nu ar trebui sa fie afectat de pvp power, cum zice mister Dreadblade in postul lui.
1: "pvp power increases damage done to players and their minions " nu scrie nicaieri increasing "absorbtion of necrotic strike" si nu apare in nici un hotfix, cum apare cand a bagat rezilul in calcul.
2: "the absorb is unaffected by PvP power" -> http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7004453720
3: "PVP power does affect the damage the strike does but does NOT increase the Healing absortion (Only scales with AP)." -> http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1472661-Does-Battle-Farigue-PvP-Power-affect-Necrotic-Strike-debuff
4: "is correct that the healing absorb is only based on AP" -> http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1472661-Does-Battle-Farigue-PvP-Power-affect-Necrotic-Strike-debuff

Proof:

Nu stiu cat de ok e sa stackezi in 4 secunde mai mult heal absorb decat are playeru. As fi postat asta la balans pvp, dar deja s-a inchis topicul.

Tinand cont ca e formula de 5.4 bagata acum, rezilul e mai mic decat pe 5.4, gearul e mai mic decat 5.4, automat la primul stack de necrotic dai tot ce ai.



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Nytrox

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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 01:52:20 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Cum a scris si dreadblade in in postul lui,s-a facut hotfix sa fie afectat de resilience si pvp power : http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/234282-so-necrotic-got-a-buff/ .




Last edited by Nytrox on 20-08-2015, 01:54:59; edited 1 time in total
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hanry
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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 01:53:09 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Mai mult absorb decat hp,e clar.....NERF DK.


Last edited by hanry on 20-08-2015, 01:58:11; edited 1 time in total
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Amnezx

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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 01:57:57 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Te rog. Plangi mai mult pe forum ca iti iei bataie de la mine side la dreadblade ca decat noi suntem care jucam la rate mare. Feralul da ok, dau copacii 40k rake fiecare? Shred 10k, e totul ok. Intr adevar e absorbul mai mare decat ar trebui, dar e diferenta de patch/gear. Daca ar fii sa faca custom fox, sa se faca si la feral si la mage si la war si la hunter.
P.S: fa un post si pt spriest ca am inteles ca te farma geanu si incepusei sa plangi.



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Sereth
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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 02:01:57 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Amnezx wrote:
Daca ar fii sa faca custom fox, sa se faca si la feral si la mage si la war si la hunter.


La feral a fost facuta deja o vulpe custom la ravage. Ca plangeai ca dau 150k ravage. a fost scazut la valoarea de 5.1. Postul e mai mult pentru a scadea ravage la valoarea de 5.1. Si nu vad nici un hotfix pe retail in care zice ca necrotic e afectat de pvp power. Pentru rezil au facut.





Last edited by Sereth on 20-08-2015, 02:11:52; edited 1 time in total
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hanry
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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 02:03:25 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Are rost sa ma bag in discutie si sa spun ca ar trebui bagat pridefull? Uite cate ***** afecteaza gameplay in pvp si cum il debalanseaza in ultimul hal.Da plm,trebuie luat in calcul si dinozaurii din world ca le dam one shot cu pridefull gear si atunci nu o sa fie corect fata de cei pve.
Totusi ar trebui bagat la 3vs3 raiting tot pridefull gear si o sa vedeti ca sigur pve players nu or sa aibe acel gear pentru a le afecta lor gameplay.

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Dreadblade

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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 02:43:19 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Dovada ca se scaleaza cu PvP Power.

In primul rand, avem video-ul asta:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=feDIwqXPg2I:



Ce ne intereseaza de la el:
- Patch 5.4.8 deci Prideful Gear + toate spell hotfixes
- Resilience de 80%
- La 0:49 in video se vede cum DK-ul pune 43,5k absorb pe rogue (poti sa vezi dupa bara aia roz care apare in mijlocul ecranului, e Addon-ul Necrotic Track care il folosesc si eu). In acel moment are Synapse Springs, Unholy Strength si Mark of the Wild pe el.

Judecand dupa HP (538k in Unholy Presence) as spune ca DK-ul nu e tocmai full prideful, ci probabil mai are cateva piese de Grievous. Am incercat sa-i refac caracterul pe GM char ca sa vad aproximativ cat Attack Power are, calculand din STRENGTH.

Screenshot la char: http://i.imgur.com/iYiUSLU.jpg
L-am facut full Prideful, DAR fara enchants, sockete, si fara belt, deci ar trebui sa simuleze cat de cat corect gear-ul DK-ului din video, poate totusi sa aiba mai mult STR decat el.

23,843 strength
La care adaugam STR-ul din engineering enchant:
1920 (+25% din Unholy Might) = 2400

2400 + 23843 = 26243

26243 + 20% (din MoTW si Unholy STR) = 31491 STR

Asta inseamna 62983 Attack Power.

Necro fiind 225% AP => 141,712
Scadem 80% din resilience => 28,342

Cat a dat el in video? ~43500

Ce anume lipseste? 59% PvP Power.

28342 + 59% = 45,063.
_________________________________________________________

Concluzia: Spell-ul functioneaza corect. De vina este gear-ul, avem prea mult PvP Power, prea putin Resilience si prea putin HP.

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tovry

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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 03:03:44 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Mah faza e ca dupa cum scrie pe wowpedia... PvP power afecteaza doar DMG / Healing :

Quote:
PvP Power 1% Damage/Healing to Players 7.964 12.559 26.115 79.128 265.0 10.0 49.0


Nu exista nici un fix / hotfix / nerf (OFICIAL) in care s'ar spune ca NS este afectat de PVPpower. Daca nu avem cum sa demonstram ca NS tine cont de PvP power atunci nu ar trebuii sa ne luam dupa ce scrie pe wowpedia despre PvP power?

pe langa asta ... sunt si faze cu custom nerf la clase gen feral (cum ca da prea tare din cauza ca e diferenta de gear / patch 5.4)... la fel cu feral a primi nerf poate asa trebuie sa pateasca si dk... nu conteaza rate'ul in discutia asta... orice dk cu putin cap face stack de 300 400k absorb in 4-5 secunde... matematic, in monentu asta dk'u are cel mai mare burst vs sustain dintre toate clasele (peste 100k dmg/s).
Nu vreau sa fiu hater dar totusi ,voi cei care jucati dk, nu credeti ca dati un pic cam prea tare? fie ca e vorba de absorb fie ca e vorba de dmg.

PS topicurile alea dp arenajunkie blizz sau mmo... nu cred ca trebuie luate prea mult in considerare... fiindca in unele se spune o chestie in altele se spune alta chestie... se bat toate cap in cap.
PS2... nu stiu cum e bine si cum nu ... dar am cautat si totusi nu am gasit nimic concret legat de NS vs PvP power




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Sereth
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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 03:23:03 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

1. Dreadblade, tu pe caracterul tau full malevo ai 38k ap, 42k cu horn. Si tu zici ca ala pe dk cu iteme gievous/prideful, care dau 600/1000 str+ pe item, face 60k ap? Cu procuri?! Btw, vezi ca ai uitat de horn of winter

2. Explica cum ai stackat tu 427k pe warrul ala, cu 40k attackpower.

3. Asa calculezi tu diferenta de gear? gen 3, maxim 4 iteme grievous in loc de prideful? Scoti 4k str? Nu cred, diferenta e undeva la maxim 1400 str. Din sockete si enchanturi pierzi 2.3k str, din curea pierzi 1300 STR.



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Dreadblade

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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 04:06:45 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

1. Si chiar daca as fi inclus Horn of Winter, fara PvP Power tot nu iese nici pe aproape fata de video.

Ar fi insemnat 69281 AP => 155,882 absorb - 80% => 31176

2. Cu toate procurile ating 78k attack power.

3. http://i.imgur.com/oD4Ub2y.jpg am pus sockete NUMAI cu strength + enchants si am schimbat 4 piese din Prideful in Grievous ca sa ajung la 538k HP. Reiau calculele.

27333 STR + 2400 + 20% = 35680

71360 AP + 10% = 78496 * 2.25 = 176616 - 80% = 35323 -> tot e mai putin.

Si chiar daca nu se scaleaza cu PvP Power, de unde lipsesc restul de 8k?

Edit: E posibil sa fi calculat gresit din video, am observat ca Fallen Crusader procuie exact atunci cand da necrotic strike - deci absorbul nu l-a luat in considerare.

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Amnezx

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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 08:59:36 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

tovry wrote:
Mah faza e ca dupa cum scrie pe wowpedia... PvP power afecteaza doar DMG / Healing :

Quote:
PvP Power 1% Damage/Healing to Players 7.964 12.559 26.115 79.128 265.0 10.0 49.0


Nu exista nici un fix / hotfix / nerf (OFICIAL) in care s'ar spune ca NS este afectat de PVPpower. Daca nu avem cum sa demonstram ca NS tine cont de PvP power atunci nu ar trebuii sa ne luam dupa ce scrie pe wowpedia despre PvP power?

pe langa asta ... sunt si faze cu custom nerf la clase gen feral (cum ca da prea tare din cauza ca e diferenta de gear / patch 5.4)... la fel cu feral a primi nerf poate asa trebuie sa pateasca si dk... nu conteaza rate'ul in discutia asta... orice dk cu putin cap face stack de 300 400k absorb in 4-5 secunde... matematic, in monentu asta dk'u are cel mai mare burst vs sustain dintre toate clasele (peste 100k dmg/s).
Nu vreau sa fiu hater dar totusi ,voi cei care jucati dk, nu credeti ca dati un pic cam prea tare? fie ca e vorba de absorb fie ca e vorba de dmg.

PS topicurile alea dp arenajunkie blizz sau mmo... nu cred ca trebuie luate prea mult in considerare... fiindca in unele se spune o chestie in altele se spune alta chestie... se bat toate cap in cap.
PS2... nu stiu cum e bine si cum nu ... dar am cautat si totusi nu am gasit nimic concret legat de NS vs PvP power

Tovry, daca absorb shields iau increase din pvp power, ar trebui sa ia si ns. Pot sa iti confirm asta, am jucat si pe live si asa era. Inca ceva. @sereth necrotic strike cu formula de 5.1 pt absorb era 100% din attack power, dar nu tinea cont de resil, deci va fii aprox acelasi absorb.



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Sereth
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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 11:11:51 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Patch 4.0.6 (8-Feb-2011): Necrotic Strike’s absorption effect is now reduced by the target’s resilience. In addition, its debuff duration has been reduced to 10 seconds, down from 15.

Nu tinea cont de rezil, zici?



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Dreadblade

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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 15:54:41 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Si ce patch e ala?

Sereth wrote:
Patch 4.0.6 (8-Feb-2011)


Daca te-ai fi uitat mai cu atentie in post-ul meu vechi, ai fi vazut asta

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/8953693/#dk

Quote:
Necrotic Strike's damage against players and pets should now be properly affected by base Resilience


Deci din patch 5.0 pana in 5.2 (adica Tyrannical Season) Necrotic Strike ignora base resil.

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tovry

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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 18:50:31 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

@dnyprox
Vezi ca absorbul de necrotic nu funcitoneaza pe acelasi princiupiu cu aborburile din shielduri... in recount spre exemplu necortic nu iti apare ca dmg... dar shiedlurile iti apar ca si heal... ba mai mult.. daca e cum spui tu ca era pe live.. ar fi insemnat ca odata in timp ar fi trebuit sa tine cont si de battle fatigue din moment ce e "ABSORB"... si dupa cum am spus si mai sus... NU EXISTA NIMIC OFICIAL prin care vre'unu din voi puteti demonstrat NS vs pvp power...

@dreadblade
Vezi ca ai gresit ceea ce ai zis acolo...
"Necrotic Strike's damage against players etc" = Dmg dp initial attack nu dp absorb... asta e ceea ce inseamna! (blizz'ul in 95% din cazuri posteaza exact ceea ce fixeaza nu doar jumatati)

Am vazut video pe full pride in care se de absorb intre 61 si 96... si pe freakz e posibil sa dai abosrb de peste 60k (cu MALEVOLENT) ... ceea e e enorm... eu tot zic ca ar avea nevoie de un custom nerf la fel cum a patit si feralul.

PS dati lock la topick fiindca deja se face flame!
Pt aia 2-3 dk care ati postat p'aci , faceti topic pt shokeru sa scoata nerful de la druid.. si veti vedea cum o sa incepeti sa va plangeti ... asta se intampla in momentul de fata ingame... nimeni nu comenteaza de war / mag /druid prea mult... ci despre dk... e total absurb cat absorb poate da... si totusi vi se pare normal.




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Post Posted: 20-08-2015, 18:57:34 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Deja exagerati -. In felul asta fiecare clasa ar trebui sa primeasca custom nerfs... Daca e s-o luam asa rogueu te omoara in 3 secunde, hunterul 100k+ kill command si 150k power shot, shamanul elemental poate da si 200k+ Lava burst, balanceul poate da cu dream 200k starsurge etc.


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