Outlaw rogue nerfs

[OwnagePranks]

Hi

I've been a combat (now outlaw) main since classic, and i'm wondering why outlaw got these massive nerfs? I haven't seen a place where it is explained, so if someone knows where it is, please redirect me.
When you nerf and buff classes/specs, do you follow what retail did? Or do you fix accordingly to this server?
The spec wasn't a top spec throughout legion. Of course outlaw had insane aoe damage, but single target wasn't really up there with other specs (correct me if i am wrong).
So why "kill" a spec like that? I love playing outlaw, and i now feel that i fell so far behind other rogue specs.
Just looking for an answer, is all.

Kind Regards and thanks in advance.

[ryangg]

There are still some fixes to be done,all specs are good in my opinion ,u can do high dps on single target with proper gear and leggos.

[OwnagePranks]

Okay. Me and alot of other outlaws i've seen has been confused mostly about this energy regen. On how we get starved incredibly fast, even with SnD, fully stacked alacrity and vigor. At times also stacked with Adrenaline Rush, which makes it really sad to play, especially on big aoe pulls. Also having 2-3 sec downtime without adrenaline ( and with the mentioned buffs SnD, alacirty and vigor). Makes playing outlaw really frustrating. As the dps can drop alot throughout a fight, especially if its a cleave fight. Talked to a couple of other outlaws about this yesterday, and they did not understand how the energy regen is that low. So i guess most of us are looking for an answer to why the energy regen got this nerf. Comparing to assa and sub, the dps with max gear is considerably lower on outlaw. Seeing how assa did 4m dps on 500m dmg done and sub 3m on 500m dmg done. While i managed to push outlaw to about 2.5m dps 500m dmg done. As i said, this was pushed, where i stayed between 2-2.5m on other boss fights, sometimes dipping below 2m dps aswell. So will this energy regen stay this way, or will it be changed?

https://armory.wow-freakz.com/character/warsong/nilsen

[ryangg]

It happens with all specs..since there is a class mod for rogue I thought he will try finding the problem...

[OwnagePranks]

Been gone for a couple of days now, not being active on forum as much as i like. But i don't understand how you can say all specs are good. Assa and sub outshine and outdps outlaw so hard. I have not tried assa and sub as much, but from what ive read and heard, they are much better. Seems no one has answered me to why rogues got this energy regen nerf aswell? Cause this is not what it was like in retail. So why not simply code after retail? Or aint that possible? I don't want no excuses, i want a answer to why outlaw got nerfed this hard compared to the other specs and compared to retail 7.3.5.
Posting a quote from Bow from another topic: My assassination rogue is doing 4million DPS at 500million damage done. A Subtlety rogue player in my guild does over 3million DPS at 500million, so I really dont see how we are at the 'bottom', if anything we are top 3, but guess that's my personal opinion. Feel free to show me other classes that do over 4million DPS.
My problem with this quote, is that there are no mentions of outlaw, i mean no disrespect or hate towards this. All i want is an answer without excuses. Thank you.

https://armory.wow-freakz.com/character/warsong/nilsen

[ryangg]

Assa shines ? hmmm ...with low gear you barely do something ,thats why I had to donate 2 items to keep up with the other classes in my guild , subtley is even more of shatshow since u cant combo very well dfa + shadowdance ,but soon they will fix that .

Regarding outlaw ,I tried play it ,energy regen is bad .thats true ,but I've seen outlaw rogues(non-donated) doing dps on par with sub and assa.

EDIT: Be positive ,soon they will fix the problem ,its still early in the patch,but dont expect outlaw to do better than assa and sub on single target ,outlaw for aoe ,the rest for single .

[OwnagePranks]

Well, im not expecting outlaw to do as good as assa and sub on single target, i know that won't happen (as some 960+ assas can outdps me now). I just want my old dps back, my aoe has went from one of the best in-game, to mediocre aoe, with alot of downtime. Same with single-target, the downtime on single target can be a pain aswell. Seeing how 950-960 can outdps me, with me being 990, mostly because of the downtime. I see that you are saying it will be fixed, and i am trying to stay positive, but when your favorite spec gets nerfed like this, its really not a fun experience. Which is why i want answers to this. So if you have an answer for my questions here, feel free to answer, if not, dont worry about it.

1 - Why was outlaws aoe nerfed as much?
2 - Why did the energy regen get nerfed? (Read that it works as it should)
3 - Why not code/patch like retail 7.3.5? (If possible)




https://armory.wow-freakz.com/character/warsong/nilsen

[ryangg]

1. Its not nerfed,they need to fix some bugs regarding outlaw spec.
2. Its not nerfed,energy regen is just bugged here ,but they will fix the problem ,probably soon.
3. Thats what they try to do ,the right data is not that easy to find so thats why it takes longer to make a thing blizzlike.

[Dwynen]

For what i've seen, the problem is not the energy regen, is that before Saber Slash was 35 energy and now is 50. That leaves it in the same stand as assa/sub in terms of energy. Now the AOE damage has been badly nerfed, i'm not sure if it's bugged (in terms of range, damage split, etc.) but the damage is absurdly low. I'm 953 and pushing all my burst in aoe fights during keys i barely do 2.5-3 m dps, sometimes, even lower than the tank, which is completely incoherent. Just as an example, i made a pala alt for professions, it's now.. 890 or something and with divine storm i do twice the dps than with the rogue, it's completely absurd!.

My theory is that, rogue having only dps spec, the three specs have been equalized, damage on sub/assa has been reduced on single target, aoe increased a bit, so the three specs do about the same.

[kennan]

Dwynen wrote:

For what i've seen, the problem is not the energy regen, is that before Saber Slash was 35 energy and now is 50. That leaves it in the same stand as assa/sub in terms of energy. Now the AOE damage has been badly nerfed, i'm not sure if it's bugged (in terms of range, damage split, etc.) but the damage is absurdly low. I'm 953 and pushing all my burst in aoe fights during keys i barely do 2.5-3 m dps, sometimes, even lower than the tank, which is completely incoherent. Just as an example, i made a pala alt for professions, it's now.. 890 or something and with divine storm i do twice the dps than with the rogue, it's completely absurd!. My theory is that, rogue having only dps spec, the three specs have been equalized, damage on sub/assa has been reduced on single target, aoe increased a bit, so the three specs do about the same.

Yep. Exactly. Btw rn every specialization have approximately the same dps, but in my opinion you should try the Assasination. Best burst/dmg in my opinion.

[Dwynen]

I'd love if a GM/Dev could clarify if there are bugs right now regarding the energy issues or if it'll will be just like that, because we are talking over the assumption that the spec is somehow "bugged", but maybe in 7.3.5 that's how it "normally" is.

[OwnagePranks]

To all the GMs/Devs that have seen this post, and seen the rogue bug reports, why have no one said anything? Are you fixing it without telling us? Is there nothing to be fixed (in your opinion)? Low priority - Other stuff that needs fixing first? Whatever it is, atleast let us know, sitting here playing rogue (outlaw) ain't really fun at the moment. And of course you could say: "Play assasin or sub" or "Play another class". Yeah sure i could, but when your main spec/class gets nerfed/bugged to this level, you atleast want to know if it will be fixed. I don't wanna insult anyone, but how hard can it be to atleast give us an answer?

Regards

A frustrated outlaw main..

EDIT: Just checked trello, seeing that [Rogue][Outlaw] Energy Regeneration is under "Urgent/Gamebreaking issues". So that is my bad. Altough this took way to long, seeing how outlaw has been like this since patch release..... but better late than never i guess If/when energy regen gets better (like last patch with close to 100% uptime), will the aoe damage of outlaw be set to how it was before aswell? Seeing how you deal 1/5 of what you did last patch while havocs and windwalkers blow the aoe meters as they used to.

https://armory.wow-freakz.com/character/warsong/nilsen

[ryangg]

I tested myself outlaw (I hate it though) and pulls pretty good numbers ,but in aoe energy starving is a problem hence the lower amount of dps.

[Dwynen]

I'm quite sure energy regen is not the problem, the problem is [Saber Slash] costing 50 energy. Also, don't focus on energy regen, focus on [Combat Potency]. 10% haste gives you 1 energy per second, to have a "decent" value you should need around 100% haste, which is completely absurd. But you can eaaaaasily get 100% mastery on outlaw, and plus some decent attack speed, you get a really acceptable amount of [Combat Potency] triggers.

My "patch" for now (works good for me, i'm starved around 1 out of 30 situations):

1. Stack mastery
2. Get relics/crucible shits for energy regen
3. Use SnD
4. Use every free pistol shot to give more time to energy to recover, that means, get Swordmaster talent.

When the rest of the tier set pieces are released we can test more.

[OwnagePranks]

Been a while since anything has been posted on here, but i see outlaw is still on trello: https://trello.com/c/V9AapSVZ/725-rogueoutlaw-energy-regeneration. And as you can see, it's been under urgent/gamebreaking issues since the 9th of may, and nothing has happened. I myself has rerolled to assasin, as this haven't been fixed yet. Have you not found out why it's bugged? Or you don't care about outlaw as its a spec played by few people (compared to sub/assa)? I think both me and other outlaw players/earlier players would like some updates on this, as it's been quiet since this was posted on trello. I myself did not want to reroll, but seeing as the spec is pretty bad overall now, i felt forced due to assa/sub being that much better. Hope i hear something soon, cheers.