[REJECTED] [Warrior] Auto Attacks Vs Focus in Chaos trait

[Smokkey16]

WoW Freakz spell link: https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=200871&&name=focus-in-chaos
Bug description: This trait procs everytime on enrage as it should , but it's effect doesn't work at all, the tooltip says clearly that quote : "Your auto attacks have no penalty to hit from dual-wielding during Enrage." that means that the dual wield applied on auto atacks on fury with the follwing formula 100% for main hand and the off-hand weapon's damage from 50% up to 62.5% https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=674/dual-wield during enrage it should be both 100% because of that trait, and also , the rage gain on the main hand seems to be 7 rage per hit and on the off hand it's (50 to 62.5 %) x main hand weapon rage generation . So that being said , the Focus in chaos trait should erase this penalty's during enrage and both auto atacks should do same damage ( the main hand damage ) 100% per weapon and same rege generation 7 per weapon hit ( on a naked character with it's weapons only equipped ). Also it sometimes bugs out and it deals 2 offhand atacks instead of one main one offhand
Proof: https://youtube.com/watch?v=zr-VmRkNwQU:

[xemix]

Last patch rage generation was higher than this patch, this seems legit +1

[Coxman]

hell yeah finally somone who discovered the bug +1

[Troolangutan]

can confirm +1

[sebyii123]

Can confirm as well +1

[Hitmanx2x]

this is a pretty big deal. good find man

[visioNw-]

I can confirm this +1

[StitchWarr]

+1 can Confirm (Stitch)

[Mighty]

Great post and even tho i would love it to be true sadly it is not.

Blizzard regarding dual wield balancing:
With regard to dual wielding, I'd like to clarify how it works and its intent. First, we do obviously realize that DW has a significantly higher miss rate, and that the offhand weapon does not deal its full damage. This is done to keep DW in direct DPS balance with using 2h weapons, and to ensure that both 2h and DW are well balanced in total effect against 1h+shield.
For a little background on the DW balance process, I need to first give a little background on how 2h weapon use is balanced against 1h+shield.
In order to make both 2h and 1h+s viable strategies for general purpose gameplay, we want approximately the same overall effectiveness in terms of total sustained killing ability over time between 2h weapon and 1h+s. This means that if you were to kill 100 creatures (for example) of your level, it should take close to the same total time including downtime when using 2h or 1h+s, perhaps favoring 2h choices somewhat (although it should be noted that there are intangibles that make measuring downtime a reasonable estimate rather than a perfect science).
While you will kill more quickly using 2h, you are expected to end the fight with a lower remaining health compared to the same fight using 1h+s. In the 1h+s case you will be killing more slowly, but have more health at the end of the fight, and therefore less downtime over the long haul (and yes, it is balanced to account for the fact that killing more quickly implies taking less hits from the enemy).
After it was all calculated to exhaustion (factoring in other objectives such as the desired damage reduction contribution of your shield relative to the rest of your armor), we determined that to achieve our goals of relative balance between 2h vs 1h+s, 2h weapons needed to produce approximately 20% more DPS then 1h+s. What this meant was that in order for DW to be an interesting (but not overpowered) choice, DW needed to also produce a total increase of 20% DPS over 1h+s (just like 2h does).
As you might realize at this point, if you got the full DPS from your second weapon while dual wielding (by having the offhand weapon attack at full speed, with full hit chance, and full damage), your DPS would go up by 100% rather than by 20% (assuming an equally good weapon in the offhand). Unfortunately, 100% amounts to a *lot* more then 20%, and would make DW the best choice by such a wide margin that it would have been pointless to have 2h or 1h+s in the game at all.
Given that, we needed to find a way to modify some combination of damage, hit chance, attack speed, or other basic combat factors in order to achieve 20% rather than 100%. Since we didn't want to reduce any one of these by too much, we opted to reduce the hit rate for both the main and offhand (since at least swinging a lot more helps correct streaky behavior caused by the increased miss rate).
In addition, since increasing the even-level miss chance to 24% or so for both weapons while using DW still wasn't enough to get us down to 20% increased DPS (and for "feel" reasons I'm sure you can understand, we didn't want to push the miss rate higher than that), we opted to reduce the damage of the offhand weapon, figuring that doing less damage from your offhand seems like it makes sense to players and would feel acceptable.
The combination of the increased miss rate for DW and lowering the offhand damage got us down to the 20% overall DPS increase from DW that we needed to ensure that DW was well balanced against 2h weapons.
So, while it can be always be said that some other combination of trade-offs for DW would have proven to "feel" better, we do have a DW system that is balanced and arguably feels more like you're actually using two weapons than DW systems in other RPGs that are also intended to be balanced.
As such, in response to the myriad of posts that offer the shocking revelation that DW has a higher miss chance than 2h or 1h+s, Id like to say that it really isn't necessary to inform us of this. We know this, that's how we made it, thanks again for the reminder. ;] Also, it seems these revelations often imply that since DW has a higher miss chance, that the DPS isnt as good as 2h, which (as explained above) simply isnt factual.

Blizzard regarding weapon miss rates:
First, a few minor notes. Yes, slow weapons will be streakier then fast weapons, causing you to notice it more when you fail to hit the opponent. This isn't something that is likely to change, it's just a basic property of the psychology involved with having fewer random events in a given time versus more. Its probably worth reminding everyone that you're also going to get a more substantial effect on a single fight from streaks of hits, which, after decimating the enemy in a few swift blows, you aren't likely to come to these forums to express discontent about. ;]
So, there are a variety of positives and negatives with regard to streaky results from slow weapons, and each player makes the decision for themselves in the end as to what they think "feels" better or more fun.
Also, we make no claims that a given "miss" event is fun, and as such we do like to have as little "missing" as we can get away with while keeping things balanced entertaining in the overall experience. At the same time, the reason it exists at all is because we feel that some reasonable amount of unpredictability adds to the overall fun of the game, since it lowers the chances that a given encounter will end in exactly the same way other similar encounters ended.

Now, regarding improving the warriors overall rage generation. We've found that there are indeed a few issues with rage generation as a result of bugs. Warriors (and druids in bear form) are intended to gain some rage on block,dodge,parry events, but apparently this isn't working correctly. This needs to be fixed asap in order for warriors to meet their total expected rage generation.
In addition, while our tests have indicated that players are getting the intended 5% miss rate while using a single max-skill weapon against even level enemies (yes, we've tested this exhaustively, and cannot reproduce the 9% miss rate you're reporting for normal swings), we have found the bug causing abilities to miss around 9-10% of the time under the above conditions instead of the intended 5%. This does mean that warriors are getting the "miss" even about twice as often as they should. Obviously, this needs to be rectified asap, since it directly impacts the warriors DPS and rage use (since missing wastes 20% of the rage cost of the ability).

For reference, here is a list of common situations to find out what's your miss chance against different enemies depending on their level.
Level 110 mob:
single wielding: 5.0%
dual-wield: 24%
Level 111 mob:
single wielding: 5.5%
dual-wield: 24.5%
Level 112 mob (level of most heroic bosses):
single wielding: 6.0%
dual-wield: 25%
Level 113 mob (level of raid bosses):
single wielding: 8.0%
dual-wield: 27%
Source: wow.gamepedia

Note that the +19% miss chance for dual-wielding only applies to ordinary auto-attack melee attacks. It does not apply to any special attack powers that cost rage, energy, or mana.

All in all,all i can conclude from this is that during enrage this trait should allow u to miss alot less with autoattacks(compared to other dual wield classes/specs),by losing the extra dual wield hit penalty of 19->22% and have just the basic 5->8% miss chance depending on the level of the enemy u encounter.And bear druids aswell as prot warriors should receive some extra rage on block,dodge,parry.Like imagine doing 100% dmg for 80% of the fight with 2 2h weapons(since enrage uptime is around 80% and that crazy ammount of stats u get),that would be crazy and also meaningless to play a 2h class/spec compared to dual wielders.As for rage generation,i suppose by missing less on your autoattacks for 80% of the fight you actually gain more rage by hitting the target with your autoattack more often rather than missing so maybe warriors do indeed not gain the benefit of the trait which would result into more autoattacks misses=less rage generation.At the same time the extra dual wield penalty could be checked for other specs too if it is indeed applied or not otherwise this trait would be meaningless to have inside the game.In your video u had a 113lvl dummy,meaning a 27% miss chance for a dual wielder.U had 35 autoattacks and 8 misses.27% out of 35 autoattacks are 9 misses which is pretty close to what u got,considering most of ur misses were outside enrage window meaning u didnt actually benefit the trait to test it out.

[Smokkey16]

bgdbogdan90 wrote:

Great post and even tho i would love it to be true sadly it is not. Blizzard regarding dual wield balancing: With regard to dual wielding, I'd like to clarify how it works and its intent. First, we do obviously realize that DW has a significantly higher miss rate, and that the offhand weapon does not deal its full damage. This is done to keep DW in direct DPS balance with using 2h weapons, and to ensure that both 2h and DW are well balanced in total effect against 1h+shield. For a little background on the DW balance process, I need to first give a little background on how 2h weapon use is balanced against 1h+shield. In order to make both 2h and 1h+s viable strategies for general purpose gameplay, we want approximately the same overall effectiveness in terms of total sustained killing ability over time between 2h weapon and 1h+s. This means that if you were to kill 100 creatures (for example) of your level, it should take close to the same total time including downtime when using 2h or 1h+s, perhaps favoring 2h choices somewhat (although it should be noted that there are intangibles that make measuring downtime a reasonable estimate rather than a perfect science). While you will kill more quickly using 2h, you are expected to end the fight with a lower remaining health compared to the same fight using 1h+s. In the 1h+s case you will be killing more slowly, but have more health at the end of the fight, and therefore less downtime over the long haul (and yes, it is balanced to account for the fact that killing more quickly implies taking less hits from the enemy). After it was all calculated to exhaustion (factoring in other objectives such as the desired damage reduction contribution of your shield relative to the rest of your armor), we determined that to achieve our goals of relative balance between 2h vs 1h+s, 2h weapons needed to produce approximately 20% more DPS then 1h+s. What this meant was that in order for DW to be an interesting (but not overpowered) choice, DW needed to also produce a total increase of 20% DPS over 1h+s (just like 2h does). As you might realize at this point, if you got the full DPS from your second weapon while dual wielding (by having the offhand weapon attack at full speed, with full hit chance, and full damage), your DPS would go up by 100% rather than by 20% (assuming an equally good weapon in the offhand). Unfortunately, 100% amounts to a *lot* more then 20%, and would make DW the best choice by such a wide margin that it would have been pointless to have 2h or 1h+s in the game at all. Given that, we needed to find a way to modify some combination of damage, hit chance, attack speed, or other basic combat factors in order to achieve 20% rather than 100%. Since we didn't want to reduce any one of these by too much, we opted to reduce the hit rate for both the main and offhand (since at least swinging a lot more helps correct streaky behavior caused by the increased miss rate). In addition, since increasing the even-level miss chance to 24% or so for both weapons while using DW still wasn't enough to get us down to 20% increased DPS (and for "feel" reasons I'm sure you can understand, we didn't want to push the miss rate higher than that), we opted to reduce the damage of the offhand weapon, figuring that doing less damage from your offhand seems like it makes sense to players and would feel acceptable. The combination of the increased miss rate for DW and lowering the offhand damage got us down to the 20% overall DPS increase from DW that we needed to ensure that DW was well balanced against 2h weapons. So, while it can be always be said that some other combination of trade-offs for DW would have proven to "feel" better, we do have a DW system that is balanced and arguably feels more like you're actually using two weapons than DW systems in other RPGs that are also intended to be balanced. As such, in response to the myriad of posts that offer the shocking revelation that DW has a higher miss chance than 2h or 1h+s, Id like to say that it really isn't necessary to inform us of this. We know this, that's how we made it, thanks again for the reminder. ;] Also, it seems these revelations often imply that since DW has a higher miss chance, that the DPS isnt as good as 2h, which (as explained above) simply isnt factual. Blizzard regarding weapon miss rates: First, a few minor notes. Yes, slow weapons will be streakier then fast weapons, causing you to notice it more when you fail to hit the opponent. This isn't something that is likely to change, it's just a basic property of the psychology involved with having fewer random events in a given time versus more. Its probably worth reminding everyone that you're also going to get a more substantial effect on a single fight from streaks of hits, which, after decimating the enemy in a few swift blows, you aren't likely to come to these forums to express discontent about. ;] So, there are a variety of positives and negatives with regard to streaky results from slow weapons, and each player makes the decision for themselves in the end as to what they think "feels" better or more fun. Also, we make no claims that a given "miss" event is fun, and as such we do like to have as little "missing" as we can get away with while keeping things balanced entertaining in the overall experience. At the same time, the reason it exists at all is because we feel that some reasonable amount of unpredictability adds to the overall fun of the game, since it lowers the chances that a given encounter will end in exactly the same way other similar encounters ended. Now, regarding improving the warriors overall rage generation. We've found that there are indeed a few issues with rage generation as a result of bugs. Warriors (and druids in bear form) are intended to gain some rage on block,dodge,parry events, but apparently this isn't working correctly. This needs to be fixed asap in order for warriors to meet their total expected rage generation. In addition, while our tests have indicated that players are getting the intended 5% miss rate while using a single max-skill weapon against even level enemies (yes, we've tested this exhaustively, and cannot reproduce the 9% miss rate you're reporting for normal swings), we have found the bug causing abilities to miss around 9-10% of the time under the above conditions instead of the intended 5%. This does mean that warriors are getting the "miss" even about twice as often as they should. Obviously, this needs to be rectified asap, since it directly impacts the warriors DPS and rage use (since missing wastes 20% of the rage cost of the ability). For reference, here is a list of common situations to find out what's your miss chance against different enemies depending on their level. Level 110 mob: single wielding: 5.0% dual-wield: 24% Level 111 mob: single wielding: 5.5% dual-wield: 24.5% Level 112 mob (level of most heroic bosses): single wielding: 6.0% dual-wield: 25% Level 113 mob (level of raid bosses): single wielding: 8.0% dual-wield: 27% Source: wow.gamepedia Note that the +19% miss chance for dual-wielding only applies to ordinary auto-attack melee attacks. It does not apply to any special attack powers that cost rage, energy, or mana. All in all,all i can conclude from this is that during enrage this trait should allow u to miss alot less with autoattacks(compared to other dual wield classes/specs),by losing the extra dual wield hit penalty of 19->22% and have just the basic 5->8% miss chance depending on the level of the enemy u encounter.And bear druids aswell as prot warriors should receive some extra rage on block,dodge,parry.Like imagine doing 100% dmg for 80% of the fight with 2 2h weapons(since enrage uptime is around 80% and that crazy ammount of stats u get),that would be crazy and also meaningless to play a 2h class/spec compared to dual wielders.As for rage generation,i suppose by missing less on your autoattacks for 80% of the fight you actually gain more rage by hitting the target with your autoattack more often rather than missing so maybe warriors do indeed not gain the benefit of the trait which would result into more autoattacks misses=less rage generation.At the same time the extra dual wield penalty could be checked for other specs too if it is indeed applied or not otherwise this trait would be meaningless to have inside the game.In your video u had a 113lvl dummy,meaning a 27% miss chance for a dual wielder.U had 35 autoattacks and 8 misses.27% out of 35 autoattacks are 9 misses which is pretty close to what u got,considering most of ur misses were outside enrage window meaning u didnt actually benefit the trait to test it out.

if you'd look on this link https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=200871 (wowhead link) it says clearly, that the damage during enrage is increased, why ? because it suffers no penalty on the offhand
"This trait will increase that damage during Enrage "
The damage done with auto-attacks have a chance to miss depending on your level and the target mob level.
All dual wielders get a -20% hit chance on auto attacks. Focus In Chaos removes the penalty during Enrage, leaving your miss chance as low as a single wielder, but doing damage with both weapons.

For Fury warriors (as per patch 7.0.3) your auto attack damage as a fury warrior in Tier-19 gear accounts for about 18% of your total damage. (12% main hand, 6% off-hand). This trait will increase that damage during Enrage.

Update @ 13-06-2020, 23:13:23

+ As a bonus here's current Melee dmg on a 500 mil fight on freakz, for a full donor https://imgur.com/a/wUP13az pretty much 13% , if you'd give no penalty to offhand weapon's damage , it can be raised with to 125% of 13% ( approximately 18 % of the dmg done / what the comment from the dude from blizz says )

[Mighty]

No,the dmg during enraged is as the tooltip of the trait states,https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=200876&&name=focus-in-chaos ull miss less meaning ur autoattacks will hit the target far more often which translates into more damage from your autoattacks.18% of total dmg from melees is alot but the reason u had that with t19 was because t19 4p(https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=212158&&name=item-warrior-t19-fury-4p-bonus) gave u 1.5s more into ur enraged window meaning u had 5.5s enraged not 4 like now.Then u benefit enrage(dhttps://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=178658&name=enrage)which increases ur autoattack speed for 1.5s more than now which means u would do more autoattacks inside ur enraged window than what u are doing now with 4s and without t19.Its even stated in what u replied,why do u think the main hand does 12% and the offhand 6%?If it would benefit the trait the offhand should do the same or at least closer to the main hand damage.

[Smokkey16]

it referes to the T19 because that's last patch when Focused in Chaos was modified Sat Jun 18 2016) Build 21473 and only talks about the Trait itself , at a 90% uptime or even 100% uptime , if you would use the carnage trait , to actually spam the rampage ,you'd see that melee is still far below 18%, and the 4 s or 5.5 sec doesn't matter , cuz 1.5 seconds don't matter if you got 100% uptime on a *** aura like Enrage

Update @ 13-06-2020, 23:28:22

https://imgur.com/a/wUP13az here's another photo of melee damage using carnage talent tree, got approx 98% enrage uptime , missed enrage for @ 1 second or so , the result , melee dmg is still *** 12.3% when it should've been 18 , and don't bullshit me with the *** frothing berserker talent because all the abilities get that 15 % increase, not only melee atacks, so as a conclusion , you did part of your homework , but you still have to research, now sit down , be humble and let the one's in charge to judge this post

Update @ 13-06-2020, 23:38:36

And , to not forget, besides blizz i have 65% haste , where on blizz cap was 30% tops, so, my atack speed is way faster than a blizzard warrior, tho, i still generate and deal less melee dmg and rage than a retail one

[Mighty]

But frothing beserker matters https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=215571&&name=frothing-berserker since this increases your autoattacks damage aswell.Who played carnage in nighthold?Did you?All top logs are made with frothing berserker.
"For Fury warriors (as per patch 7.0.3) your auto attack damage as a fury warrior in Tier-19 gear accounts for about 18% of your total damage. (12% main hand, 6% off-hand). This trait will increase that damage during Enrage." Thats just a mere comment,check all the top logs inside nighthold,ull see you will never find a 18% total dmg melee attacks fight.Also this is the reason main hand does twice the dmg of the offhand in what he stated cause u understand that if offhand does the same dmg as main hand,with 100% enrage as u said,they will do the same dmg right?
Edit: who said it should be 18%?some random dude?where did u get ur proof from that it should be 18%?U can easily check the logs and see for yourself.Also u are comparing ur 7.3.5 stats now to the stats and logs in 7.1.5?U have 2 weapons exactly the same and they both do the same dmg why one is doing 12% and the other 6% if they are both the same?Its only logic that the damage should be the same on both or at least very very close.
I told u,the trait is even showcased on your video,out of 35 autoattacks u had 8 misses which is pretty close to the value u should have since 27%miss chance out of 35autoattacks is 9.Thats what the trait does,increases your chance to miss less during enraged compared to other dual wielders,as its even stated in the tooltip of the trait,"dual wield HIT penalty".That statement i gave above is from the blizzard itself regarding dual wielders balancing so its not bullshit,u can imagine that by having 2 weapons doing 100% the damage of melee attacks would be hilariously high.

[Mighty]

https://imgur.com/a/qNSEjYV thats the fix u are talking about Build 21474
https://imgur.com/a/72MEyvx and thats they changed it into Build 21473
U can see thats what the trait was meant to do.Invalid.

[Troolangutan]

my friend @bgdbogdan90 u have no idea on classes and you keep replying, u are the reason why classes are so bugged right now, u don't understand yet u try to fix
let's have some examples:
1. https://forum.wow-freakz.com/REJECTED-Warrior-Fury-Bloobath-t582451.html - u provided 0 informations why it deals 0 damage and u just posted a picture, yet u are trying to fix classes
2. https://forum.wow-freakz.com/view-post-5955579.html - here u say it's okay to keep it bugged just because the dmg formula is good. "there have been issues with stacking dots before,so whats the point to try and fix something which works ok-ish atm with a fix which could make worse than it is maybe" when i read this i wonder why u are replying to class fixes again
3. this topic is the proof u have no idea what u talking about, please instead of trying to look into classes maybe go script a custom event or something or even play minecraft and build redstone things

i can confirm this is a bug btw

 

Staff message (k0s):

 

+1 warn, you dont have to be toxic.