[Hunter] Aspect of the Turtle vs damage deflection

[Needix3]

WoW Freakz spell link: https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=186265&&name=aspect-of-the-turtle

Character name: Iannos

Bug description: Aspect of the Turtle should deflect any kind of directly incoming damage, best example is: Kingaroth's Ruiner (https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=246840&&name=ruiner) if you use Aspect of the Turtle and go through ruiner, you'll take 30% less damage and what should happen is take no damage at all, since it deflects all attacks, another example is Demolish (https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=252762&&name=demolish), it literally goes through AotT, meaning you get one shotted if you don't stack. There are other situations where this happens with AotT. As soon as I re-encounter them I will update this.

Proof: It can be easily tested, didn't have the opportunity to record this happening.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=sPNw5R4Dpek:

here (8:33) is proof on how AotT is reflecting ruiner, also the player takes a Diabolic Bomb, and he is not taking any damage.

[alextoma442]

I agree, same thing happens in pvp and also instead of deflecting some attacks, we get gripped or stunned in aspect of the turtle.

[zeakey]

Hi Needix3,

Thank you for your report. I've tested Demolish and it reflects it perfectly. And Kingaroth's Ruiner get reflected if you use it before stepping in to the animation and gaining the debuff. Once you gained the debuff from Kingaroth's Ruiner it will stick to you with 30% dmg reduction until you step out from the animation so it could get reflected after. Aspect reflects incoming spells not already existing debuffs that are on you.

I will leave this thread for another couple of days in case you have any more spells to report that poorly interacting with the aspect.

@alextoma442

I did notice that it doesn't deflect DK grip. It does however deflect dk asphyxiate stun. I will double check some of the resources in few days to see if there is a mod to mitigate the grip mechanic. This isn't mentioned on our database so I will have to check my source.

Meanwhile, please provide me a video example of a dk grip or a knock back being deflected by the aspect of the turtle if you can.

[Needix3]

zeakey wrote:

Hi Needix3, Thank you for your report. I've tested Demolish and it reflects it perfectly. And Kingaroth's Ruiner get reflected if you use it before stepping in to the animation and gaining the debuff. Once you gained the debuff from Kingaroth's Ruiner it will stick to you with 30% dmg reduction until you step out from the animation so it could get reflected after. Aspect reflects incoming spells not already existing debuffs that are on you. I will leave this thread for another couple of days in case you have any more spells to report that poorly interacting with the aspect. @alextoma442 I did notice that it doesn't deflect DK grip. It does however deflect dk asphyxiate stun. I will double check some of the resources in few days to see if there is a mod to mitigate the grip mechanic. This isn't mentioned on our database so I will have to check my source. Meanwhile, please provide me a video example of a dk grip or a knock back being deflected by the aspect of the turtle if you can.

I understand know, wasn't aware of the ruiner debuff. Another spell I am concerned about is in EoA, Wrath of Azshara, Crushing Depths (https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=197365&&name=crushing-depths), many times I was one shotted through Turtle Aspect, does it work the same way as the ruiner? Receiving 30% less damage? Though it shouldn't one shot anyway because it inflicts 60% damage of max health. I have to mention that I haven't tested it in a while so I cannot be sure if it still happens or not.

Thank you!

[RedCoats]

First of all, Aspect of the Turtle should be treated as an absolute immunity versus other player's ccs (same as ice block or bubble).
Unfortunately I haven't found a specific video with a dk grip vs turtle as of yet. Nonetheless, I managed to track one of the forum posts that discusses the said matter.
1. https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2106072-Death-Grip-fail-issue#post_43142666
2. Knock back deflection proof: (2:04)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=MgNVPVftjbA:

[Gomzul2]

Needix3 wrote:

I understand know, wasn't aware of the ruiner debuff. Another spell I am concerned about is in EoA, Wrath of Azshara, Crushing Depths (https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=197365&&name=crushing-depths), many times I was one shotted through Turtle Aspect, does it work the same way as the ruiner? Receiving 30% less damage? Though it shouldn't one shot anyway because it inflicts 60% damage of max health. I have to mention that I haven't tested it in a while so I cannot be sure if it still happens or not. Thank you!

Yes you should be able to immun the crushing depths in EOA, on freakz this is not possible. There are several other spells that turtle doesn't deflect (i.e. the mushrooms in darkheart thicket that the keepers are spawning). Something is def. wrong about the script.

[zeakey]

The thing is there are a few exceptions when it shouldn't reflect spells Most likely only AoE radius based based spells or traps.

Check this report below:

https://trello.com/c/apaNv12S/521-immunities-vs-traps-on-imonar-the-soulhunter

This requires in-depth investigation...

[Needix3]

So I did a little research regarding Turtle Aspect and I found a bit of info
first here: https://www.wowdb.com/spells/186265-aspect-of-the-turtle#related:modified-by (the fact that Turtle doesn't deflect aoe based spells is considered a bug that was never fixed, [written when you mouse over effect #3 - reflect all spells], which this leads to another discussion, because Turtle would be the only ultimate defensive that doesn't protect you from all the damage like Ice Block, or Cocoon or Blessing of Protection does)

second bit of info: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2185800-what-does-aspect-of-turtle-exactly-do (on this forum people discussed also AotT issues, one said The purpose of also reducing damage taken by 30% reduces damage that cannot be deflected, ie periodic effects on the hunter that are dealing ticking damage. - this shares my vision for Turtle because, indeed that confirms the part that when a hunter has a debuff on him that does damage already, Turtle only reduces damage taken, BUT if turtle is used before the debuff is put on hunter, it should deflect it no matter, ie Kin'Garoth's ruiner debuff, like you said Zeakey, to use Turtle before you get hit by the laser.

another opinion on the matter also from the mmo forum: Long story short: "The most* damage you can take while the aspect is active, is from already active debuffs. And the damage from those are reduced by 30%
*: Falling and drowning can still damage you."

Also there are some bosses and spells, like Imonar's traps that are coded to bypass immunities, mechanics are mechanics.

What's tricky now is if indeed Turtle is bugged as in not deflecting aoe based spells, this needs a bit more research, because people on retail complained about it too.


More "Snippets" from the forum:

Aspect of the Turtle

1. Deflect all attack from enemy. (Not only damage skill but also debuff)
2. If hunter can't deflect, then hunter takes 30% reduced damage
3. Hunter cannot attack (Auto attack, Cobra Shot, KillCommand, Dire Beast etc.)
4. Hunter still use most of cooldown (not aMoC), pet mending and "/dance"
5. Immune to DoT, however, if hunter already got DoT, then just takes 30% reduced damage.


Another one said something contradictory:
--debuffs that can't be deflected in general. These are usually big boss mechanics integral to the fight -> the only debuff that pops in my mind from raids is empowered pulse grenade, which is actually deflected, but I am not sure if it's of any relevance
--Ground-based AOEs that you stand in -> this one does not make sense because let's remember the soak that you need to do at Garothi third phase on mythic, where turtle deflects the damage and works fine like on the Retail version.
--Attacks that are airborne before you activate turtle -> this one also doesn't make sense - Eonar - Chaotic Pulse, hits you from the sky, can and should be deflected by turtle which works fine like on the Retail version.


Hope this helped in any way possible.

[zeakey]

Thank you for your extensive research Needix3,

This spell is tricky indeed. If you have any more theories about what spells it interacts poorly with let me know on discord or PM. I will test them out for you.

I did do some of my own PvP research for alextoma442. Seems like it should indeed deflect Death Grip.

As for knockbacks. I tested more abilities like typhoon and thunderstorm and explosive trap. Turtle made hunter immune to Typhoon since it is a directional knock back. However, thunderstorm and explosive trap still knock back since they have aoe aspect and it doesn't come directly from hero who casts it.

Also look out for spells that have mods "Cannot be reflected", "Can't be redirected", "Always hits". That means Aspect of the Turtle most likely won't be able to deflect it.

If any of you find any more exceptions for this ability with video proof or retail comments please make a new report.

Proof:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/2106072-Death-Grip-fail-issue
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/653810-Deterrence-vs-Death-Grip


Trello:

https://trello.com/c/FdB2B1Av/1161-hunter-aspect-of-the-turtle-deflect