PvE raid lockouts - open discussion

[Shocker]

There have been a lot of complains about how the normal/heroic raids work on WoW Freakz (some of the topics https://forum.wow-freakz.com/Raid-Nighthold-Boss-reset-on-hc-mode-t515795.html / https://forum.wow-freakz.com/RAID-CD-boss-raid-doar-ca-raidleader-t494167.html)
We know this is a problem however the system implemented on blizz is extremely complex when it comes to actual scripting, which unfortunately leaves us with only 2 options for now (until we fully rewrite the raids lockout system which won't happen too soon):

1. make no modifications and leave the system as it is now
   Pros:
   • you don't get any bind at all when you do normal / heroic (you only get personal loot CD), which allows you to join any number of raids for the same bosses and kill them over and over again
     
   • you don't have to keep track of the name of the players from your CD since you don't have any CD
   
   Cons:
   • After you disband your raid and recreate it (even with the same players) you have to start the raid from 0 again. Example: you killed 5/10 bosses and the next day you want to continue but you have to start from 0/10 again
   
   
2. implement the old cata/MoP cooldown system (which is currently used by Mythic raids)
   Pros:
   • if you create a group and kill 5/10 bosses then the next day you recreate the same group (or invite new players which don't have any lockout yet) you can continue from the 6th boss without having to klil the first 5 bosses again
   
   Cons:
   • if you got a raid CD you will not be able to join ANY OTHER GROUP except your initial group if you want to do the same raid. you will have to use our custom .cd command (which is not fully working for Legion difficulties yet, but will if we implement this system) which lists the players from your bind
   
   

PS: Please DO NOT come with OTHER ideas, ONLY THESE 2 ARE THE POSSIBLE OPTIONS FOR NOW! Yes, we know, none of them are fully blizzlike.

PPS: Any hate / insult / drama post will be deleted and user instantly BANNED. I want this to be a discussion about which version is better, not another place where you rage and insult the devs or staff.

EDIT:

WarningG wrote:

For example, we can leave "LOOT CD". Add "RAID CD" and give to all ppl command to reset "RAID CD".

This might actually be a good idea, binding everyone to a specific lockout but also allowing everyone to reset their lockout if they really want that

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[norbert.pls]

1. The current situation does not allow smaller guilds to progress properly, on hc, reason why most new or struggling guilds often break after a short time. However, it allows more alt runs to be done in guilds which are clearing hc without too many obstacles.

2. In my opinion, this option will benefit the pve scene more, allowing smaller guilds to have time to fully clear a raid, without the pressure of having to do it in one night. At this point, we are in need of a bigger scene in terms of number of progressing guilds, not just the really small amount of players who consistently clear the entire mythic content. The big gap between the content-clearing capacity of the guilds is large, and often, smaller guild will fail to even fully clear heroic, which will demoralize players and will make them lose interest.

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[Nemesi]

norbert.pls wrote:

1. The current situation does not allow smaller guilds to progress properly, on hc, reason why most new or struggling guilds often break after a short time. However, it allows more alt runs to be done in guilds which are clearing hc without too many obstacles. 2. In my opinion, this option will benefit the pve scene more, allowing smaller guilds to have time to fully clear a raid, without the pressure of having to do it in one night. At this point, we are in need of a bigger scene in terms of number of progressing guilds, not just the really small amount of players who consistently clear the entire mythic content. The big gap between the content-clearing capacity of the guilds is large, and often, smaller guild will fail to even fully clear heroic, which will demoralize players and will make them lose interest.

Totally agree with you.
And thanks to the Staff that, finally, is looking for a good solution.

pps. Thank you Shocker

[Wera]

If you can not implement as Blizz, it's better to leave everything as it is now (option one 1.). The second option (2) is not suitable for the legion, Shocker said yesterday that the new patch still have to wait a long time, which means people who have CD for raids will die of boredom, people will not be able to go anywhere.
Do not forget, all people work, today they were in the roadstead and tomorrow they are at work and we can not replace them because we already have CD.

[Wondervicce]

Second option valid only for guilds with 30 well geared raiders. Many peoples love freakz for simple raiding options with premades. This solution would be big disappointment for most of the casual players

[dbondn123]

norbert.pls wrote:

1. The current situation does not allow smaller guilds to progress properly, on hc, reason why most new or struggling guilds often break after a short time. However, it allows more alt runs to be done in guilds which are clearing hc without too many obstacles.

No, it's not true. If you're small guild you HAVE TO find 30 people in premade because of broken scalling. Let's say you've killeed 7/10 bosses and you want to return tommorrow, how will you find same 30 people for this raid? I'll answer you - you will not find them, and you will have to find new people, but you will not find them because noone wants to go on 3 bosses. Many people will start joining only fresh raids since every1 wants to farm legendaries and kill as many bosses as possible.
If the second option will be implemented it will be a hugest mistake made by Freakz.

The ONLY problem which needs to be fixed is scalling, if scalling will be fixed small guilds will easily clear raid in 1-2 hours.

[kzm]

I speak on behalf of my guild(small guild). The second option will totaly kill us.

I'm voting for the first option.

[skyreaker24]

can you make just the heroic mode to also have the same binding cooldown system like on mythic?

LFR and normal modes are better to remain like they are right now, these modes help people with fresh chars to gather gear and getting an entire raid cooldown bechause of a fail pug raid which disbands after the first boss is not great at all...

heroic mode is a bit harder but just like mythic can be a progress raid for the smaller guilds which may wish to try a specific encounter several times during a week.

[Warbike]

skyreaker24 wrote:

can you make just the heroic mode to also have the same binding cooldown system like on mythic? LFR and normal modes are better to remain like they are right now, these modes help people with fresh chars to gather gear and getting an entire raid cooldown bechause of a fail global raid which disbands after the first boss is not great at all... heroic mode is a bit harder but just like mythic can be a progress raid for the smaller guilds which may wish to try a specific encounter several times during a week.

I agree. Since it will not be blizzlike, better if Normal difficult remain without bosses ID. This will help a LOT new characters.
Then i prefer to have ID system only for HC and Myth difficulties.
Further, if we use the myth difficult system, you could invite other players giving them raid leader ID(in a PUG case where players left after first wipe).
It's Thinking about the ID system for all the difficulties is very selfish towards the players that prefer to do raid using premade feature. This will be the most balanced choice.

[Visan15]

I know you say "Please DO NOT come with OTHER ideas" but i think next ideea its better for all. Stay on the same system but add the portal to the entrance to jump over the first three bosses and cancel the condition to kill all the bosses to kill the elisande / guldan etc. Adding the portal is your choice if you want to kill the first three or continue the progress left the day before


Thanks !

[eronius]

Visan15 wrote:

I know you say "Please DO NOT come with OTHER ideas" but i think next ideea its better for all. Stay on the same system but add the portal to the entrance to jump over the first three bosses and cancel the condition to kill all the bosses to kill the elisande / guldan etc. Adding the portal is your choice if you want to kill the first three or continue the progress left the day before Thanks !

2 different portals, first to skip first 3 bosses,second one to reach directly elisande and guldan without the condition to kill all the bosses, i like it so much

[Fuorius]

2nd option, definitely, it grants more possibility to guild for organize raid schedule.
Premade will survive even with old id system (as it was before legion).
If you want to accept a suggestion, add raid id to heroic only (like someone suggested)

[VirginiaTonioli]

2nd option, thanks!

[rempty]

I vote for option 2, but just for HC Nighthold and not affect the Normal mode. Normal mode can be done with pugs easily, but HC need preparation and good raiders.

The BIG problem in my guild is that we can't complete NH HC in 1 day, and we need to clear skorpyron, chronomatic anomaly, trillax, each day of raid to continue with the other bosses, going to guldan in a future for us will be imposible in 1 day, only 2 hours of raid per day.

[Wera]

With the second option, all the small guilds will be eliminated, only those who can speak Romanian or English remain, the rest can not collect the raid, no one will go to them and will not want to spoil the CD even if it's the first boss.

When will the final decision be known?