[REJECTED] [Multiple] Vengeance

[Magnus06]

WoW Freakz spell link: Paladin, Death knight, Warrior, Druid, Monk

Bug description : Each consecutive attacks from a unique target provides less attack power, it shouldn't. Vengeance's diminushing returns has nothing to do with consecutives attacks but rather with consecutive targets to avoid ridiculous scaling of attack power in AOE fights like Tortos and the bats that spawns at some point. The actual issue means that even though Vengeance is capped at the player's health it's impossible to reach it because of this unjustified diminushing return.

Proof : http://i.imgur.com/W61EqOD.jpg

Tested from : Manifestion of pride

Base damage : 10k, reduced by Sanctuary to 8500.
Hit 1 : 8500, 150 vengeance gained
Hit 2 : 8500, 134 vengeance gained (total : 284) => -~10% from hit 1
Hit 3 : 8500, 119 vengeance gained (total : 403) => -~20% from hit 1
Hit 4 : 8500, 108 vengeance gained (total : 511) => -~30% from hit 1
Hit 5 : 8500, 104 vengeance gained (total : 607) => same as above, don't know why maybe a dodge/parry/miss.
Hit 6 : 8500, 85 vengeance gained (total : 692) => -~40%
Hit 7 : 8500, 78 vengeance gained (total : 770) => -~50%
Hit 8 : 8500, 68 vengeance gained (total : 838) => -~55%
Hit 9 : 8500, 63 vengeance gained (total : 901) => -~60%
Hit 10 : 8500, 51 vengeance gained (total : 952) => -~65%

Ew, i'm superbad at maths i don't think it's just simple % but something and another something messing around the further we go.

Anyway the amount gained is each time slower, i eventually stopped getting anymore vengeance from that creature when i reached 1450-1500 vengeance. I tested naked as prot paladin, with 0 armor, no other buff except Sanctuary.

Data i collected after some research :

Mop veins : Point 7.1
Maintankadin : http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&&t=33086
MMOchampion : http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1199249-So-vengeance-please-explain-me
Youtube : 5.4 Vengeance changes (includes a screencap of a blue post for multiples attacking targets vengeance building)
Freakz forum : https://forum.wow-freakz.com/FIXED-Multiple-Vengeance-t348624.html

[madau]

You are completely wrong about this.
This is the formula:

Code:

0.015 * UnmitigatedDamage + OldVengeance * OldVengeanceSecondsRemaining / 20

What it means is this:
- Vengeance is 1.5% of the UNMITIGATED attack that you should receive. Even though you dodge/miss/absorb/reduce by cds you should be gaining Vengeance.
- At the next attack you add to the vengeance of the attack part of the old vengeance. What part means? Well for every second passed from the last attack you lose 5% of it. This is the way Vengeance decays, otherwise it would get very fast to ridiculous amount of vengeance and never drop.
So, for example, your old vengeance is 2000 and the next attack happens after 4 seconds that would mean that in the next calculation the old vengeance will loose 20%, so you will have 1600 + new vengeance.

What you tested there proves me i`m right and works as it should:


Base damage : 10k, reduced by Sanctuary to 8500. - Ignore the damage reductions
Hit 1 : 8500, 150 vengeance gained 1.5% of the unmitigated damage
Hit 2 : 8500, 134 vengeance gained (total : 284) => -~10% from hit 1 150 vengeance from the second hit and 134 (should be 135 but rounding down) from the old vengeance because it has been 2 seconds since your first hit which mean 10% decay on old vengeance
Hit 3 : 8500, 119 vengeance gained (total : 403) => -~20% from hit 1 150 vengeance from the third hit and 253 from old vengeance -> (134+150) - 10% because of the 2 seconds passed since the last hit, it means 284-28=256.
Hit 4 : 8500, 108 vengeance gained (total : 511) => -~30% from hit 1 same
Hit 5 : 8500, 104 vengeance gained (total : 607) => same as above, don't know why maybe a dodge/parry/miss. The calculations are made for each second passed but the melee attacks are not exactly at 2 seconds apart, most raid bosses hit at 1.5s, for this npc i have no info, but this behavior is made so that you don't waste any vengeance

The formula is not the issue now, nor the calculations. There seems to be a different problem that i cannot put my finger on yet. For example, i solotanked Iron Jugg on my guardian and during the first phase i didnt go above 100k vengeance, when the boss, aoe and dot hit like a truck. I was taking hits for 700k from the fire dot but my vengeance meter wouldnt move.

I'll leave the topic open for the moment to find out exactly what the issue is.



Vengeance is in my heart, death in my hand,
Blood and revenge are hammering in my head.

[Magnus06]

Hi,

Quote:

The formula is not the issue now, nor the calculations. There seems to be a different problem that i cannot put my finger on yet. For example, i solotanked Iron Jugg on my guardian and during the first phase i didnt go above 100k vengeance, when the boss, aoe and dot hit like a truck. I was taking hits for 700k from the fire dot but my vengeance meter wouldnt move.

This is also my thoughts. There i've just been too fast with this that i skipped this tiny decay thingy... Sorry 'bout that, really. It's frustrating as i oftenly think about this but never find a reason and i end up falling into madness like this.

I'm ashamed.

Thank you for your intervention.

[ismael1370]

the formula looks a bit strange, but it will not change too much things... it's not the problem
but sometimes I feel vengeance is not high enough..
for aoe fights have enough vengeance, for mele/physical every think is ok...
but I think some sources of damage don't give enough vengeance... maybe magical damages, maybe bleed ones or damages overtime... or with damage taken increase buffs...

maybe it's by nature of vengeance, it's more effective with physical damage, because of armor, avoidance, physical absorb
.. boss deals 100k persec, you take i.e. 20k persec damage and have 15k vengeance... but with magical damages you will take 80k from boss dealing 100 persec and you have 15k vengeance...
maybe it's why I hate lei-she

[Magnus06]

@madau

Should base damage of an ability into the vengeance calculation consider damage amplification effects ? Like if an ability does 10k damage but applies a 10% damage taken from that spell stackable, let's say you have 3 stack then new base damage should be 13k, would you gain vengeance from 10k or 13k ?
Atm i think with almost 100% certitude that you'd gain vengeance from the 10k hence justifying what you mentionned about Iron Juggernaut that i also can nearly solotank while still struggling with vengeance generation (that denies me the full solotanking atm if i'm right).

I just went to Ulduar 25, Leviathan has an automatic ram ability that increase damage from the ram each time you get struck but my vengeance was still really low (6-8k) while taking that kind of damage between two EF ticks :




Also there's a few things to fix with multiples target DR vengeance thingy to fix i guess, because everytime i get on Iron Qon trashes i get this kind of vengeance (see bottom left) :

[MeizNab]

https://forum.wow-freakz.com/view-post-4463430.html
You dont receive the vengeance increase anymore(from what i've heard there was a bug and some ppl were exploiting it), also this can be related to the topics regarding shield barrier and thread generation since >no vengeance>no dmg=low threat
https://youtube.com/watch?v=VsvfBcFuEYI:


For instance look at this warrior tank Pov 0:14 up to 0:20 notice the vengeance increase from taunt vs normal veng afterwards.
@madau , erudax.

[madau]

Figured it out, will make a new post since the first one has nothing to do with it. hoping for a rapid fix to it, will ensure a relative good life to tanks.



Vengeance is in my heart, death in my hand,
Blood and revenge are hammering in my head.