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[FIXED] Envenom and Nature Resistance.
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Wickedone

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Post Posted: 19-03-2011, 03:44:40 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Confirm bugul la envenom, nu trebuie sa fie afectat de nature resistance.
Threadurile de pe Arena Junkies si pozele de pe cataclysm sunt dovezile cele mai bune.

Stiti ce ? Cum ar fi ca rogue-ul sa umble socketat cu spell penetration din cauza la resist ? Ganditi-va logic ca nu are cum pentru ca orice clasa se socketeaza impotriva resistului. Iar la o diferenta de 15-30%(crit) esti nevoit sa pui penetration, iar pentru un rogue asta e o aberatie.

Edit1: Exact ce am zis mai devreme se regaseste intr-un thread pe blizz -> http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1549393583 . E inuman sa pui pe rogue SPELL penetration.

Edit2: Am gasit pe bugtrakerul TrinityCore -> http://www.trinitycore.org/t/trinitycore/ticket/875 :
"Envenom should not be afflicted by spell partial resistances at all, its a regular melee ability with spell landing. For example > you cant use cloak of shadows to prevent divine storm.
There is a huge bunch of comments connected to this issue on forums like ArenaJunkies so if you have any doubt about this report please make a research first before posting.
If i deal damage with Envenom to a target with nature resistances, an amount of envenom damage is basically resisted which is completely wrong.
Envenom isnt affected by spell resistances and thats why on live servers we never saw rogues ridiculously gemming Spell pen.
And please, do not quote a Wowwiki because its a free resource and that article about envenom being useless against high nature resistant mobs is wroten in 2007 and its outdated."

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Harlequin

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Post Posted: 21-03-2011, 04:09:59 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Envenom dak te uiti atent la School scrie Nature
Finishing move that consumes your Deadly Poison and deals instant POISON damage. Following the Envenom attack your Deadly Poison application chance is increased by 15%, and your Instant Poison application frequency by 75%, for 1 sec plus an additional 1 sec per combo point.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Poisons
The following abilities, talents, and items directly relate to Rogue poisons:

* Shiv: Instantly applies the poison on your offhand weapon to the target and dispels an enrage effect.
* Mutilate: Damage is increased by 20% against poisoned targets.
* Envenom Consumes 1 stack of Deadly Poison per combo point on the target, dealing additional damage per point, similar to Eviscerate but ignores armor and deals NATURE damage.
* Bloodfang Armor: Tier 2 (level 60) gear with 3-set bonus that increases the chance to apply poisons to your target by 5%.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Magic_schools_%28WoW%29
The Nature school is usually used for nature based attacks, buffs, and curative spells. Nature damage can be direct damage (like lightning) or damage over time (like poison). This means that Rogues (poison), Shamans, Druids, and Hunters (stings) have access to NATURE damage.

Din cate stiu eu Poison da NATURE damage iar Disease da FROST cum e in cazul Frost Fever (wowhead link) sau SHADOW cum e in cazul Blood Plague (wowhead link) / Devouring Plague (wowhead link)

Exceptie este Infected Wounds (wowhead link) care este Disease dar nu da damage deci face parte din Physical School.

Bottom line Envenom ,abilitate care ignora armura targetului, ar trebui sa dea mai putin dmg pe targeturile cu Nature Resist sau cu urm buffs:
Sacred Cleansing
Mark Of The Wild
si nu sunt sigur dar cred ca si vs Anti-Magic Shell pt ca:
Effect #1 Apply Aura: Absorb Damage
Value: 75
Affected Spell Schools: Holy, Fire, Nature, Frost, Shadow, Arcane
Targets: Caster

Effect #2 Apply Aura: Immunity To Debuffs By Spell School
Affected Spell Schools: Holy, Fire, Nature, Frost, Shadow, Arcane
Targets: Caster




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Wickedone

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Post Posted: 21-03-2011, 18:24:37 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Harlequin wrote:
Envenom dak te uiti atent la School scrie Nature
Finishing move that consumes your Deadly Poison and deals instant POISON damage. Following the Envenom attack your Deadly Poison application chance is increased by 15%, and your Instant Poison application frequency by 75%, for 1 sec plus an additional 1 sec per combo point.


Damage-ul la envenom se stackeaza cu attack power(nu cu spell power), deci este un atac MELEE in forma de nature damage. Daca envenom ar avea vreo legatura cu SPELL damage sau cu abilitate de tip SPELL, am staca SPELL power - nu-i asa ?

Harlequin wrote:

http://www.wowwiki.com/Magic_schools_%28WoW%29
The Nature school is usually used for nature based attacks, buffs, and curative spells. Nature damage can be direct damage (like lightning) or damage over time (like poison). This means that Rogues (poison), Shamans, Druids, and Hunters (stings) have access to NATURE damage.
Din cate stiu eu Poison da NATURE damage iar Disease da FROST cum e in cazul Frost Fever (wowhead link) sau SHADOW cum e in cazul Blood Plague (wowhead link) / Devouring Plague (wowhead link)
Exceptie este Infected Wounds (wowhead link) care este Disease dar nu da damage deci face parte din Physical School.


Irelevant, nicio dovada. Poison-urile sunt singurele abilitati ale rogue-ului care pot fi rezistate partial.
http://i56.tinypic.com/15eu5c3.jpg -> No rezist, poison full, envenom full
http://i52.tinypic.com/2guldt4.jpg -> + nature rezist, poison 1/4 rezist, envenom full

Harlequin wrote:
Bottom line Envenom ,abilitate care ignora armura targetului, ar trebui sa dea mai putin dmg pe targeturile cu Nature Resist sau cu urm buffs:
Sacred Cleansing
Mark Of The Wild
si nu sunt sigur dar cred ca si vs Anti-Magic Shell pt ca:
Effect #1 Apply Aura: Absorb Damage
Value: 75
Affected Spell Schools: Holy, Fire, Nature, Frost, Shadow, Arcane
Targets: Caster

Effect #2 Apply Aura: Immunity To Debuffs By Spell School
Affected Spell Schools: Holy, Fire, Nature, Frost, Shadow, Arcane
Targets: Caster


AMS absoarbe - deci e corect, nu are legatura cu rezistenta. Dar celelalte buffuri care cresc rezistenta nu ar trebui sa scada damageul envenomului.

Incearca sa nu ignori ce am spus mai devreme, e un post pe trinity bug checker + QQ thread http://www.arenajunkies.com/topic/126308-envenom-not-affected-by-aotw/ + toate posturile envenom related.

Edit:

Shocker wrote:
Ce a postat zohl e de pe cataclysm, s-a schimbat sistemul de resistance acolo, cautati info exacte despre spell resist pe cata sa vad exact, nu am timp sa caut acum


Nu s-a schimbat nimic la sistemul de resistance, am cautat pe toate patchurile info despre envenom, nature resist si nu e schimbat nimic.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/4-0-1


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Deadlybugaddictbrew

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Post Posted: 22-03-2011, 08:41:32 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

nu pot sa ma abtin sa nu mai postez aici. Vine omu cu dovezi clare ca Envenom e DIFERIT de orice alt spell din wow si voi continuati cu acelasi link de pe wowiki si cu faptul ca acolo scrie School:Nature. Wow e mai complex de atat. Si toate threadurile de pe Arena Junkies si de pe Trinity si de oriunde mai vrei sunt o dovada MULT MAI BUNA decat orice incercati voi sa explicati cu ajutorul wowikiului sau cu ajutorul "School=Nature". Nu stiu dc mai ezita shocker atata.. e clar ca am avut dreptate de la inceput.


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Alexander0810

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Post Posted: 22-03-2011, 09:31:41 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Doar ca si o comparatie, care este diferenta dintre https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=57993&&name=envenom si https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=60053&&name=explosive-shot in afara de faptul ca una e range alta e physical, aman2 isi fac scale cu ap, aman2 dau elemental damage, explosive shot e logic sa fie resisted merge cum trebuie, trebuie sa socketezi spell pen sa nu se intample asta, nu vad de ce nu ar fii envenom la fel -.
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terlyon

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Post Posted: 22-03-2011, 12:23:11 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Deadlybugaddictbrew wrote:
nu pot sa ma abtin sa nu mai postez aici. Vine omu cu dovezi clare ca Envenom e DIFERIT de orice alt spell din wow

Alexander0810 wrote:
Doar ca si o comparatie, care este diferenta dintre https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=57993&&name=envenom si https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=60053&&name=explosive-shot in afara de faptul ca una e range alta e physical, aman2 isi fac scale cu ap, aman2 dau elemental damage, explosive shot e logic sa fie resisted merge cum trebuie, trebuie sa socketezi spell pen sa nu se intample asta, nu vad de ce nu ar fii envenom la fel -.
Incearca sa citesti tot inainte sa postezi =>jert


sunt printuri de pe blizz care dovedesc ca e buguit si voi tot continuati sa veniti cu posturi de pe wowwiki...care sunt puse tot de persoane care cred ca au dreptate



Last edited by terlyon on 22-03-2011, 15:05:10; edited 1 time in total
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Deadlybugaddictbrew

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Post Posted: 22-03-2011, 14:17:05 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Terly... Eu incerc de asemenea sa dovedesc ca este buguit. Nu ai inteles ce am zis


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cizma

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Post Posted: 22-03-2011, 15:18:19 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Alexander0810 wrote:
Doar ca si o comparatie, care este diferenta dintre https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=57993&&name=envenom si https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=60053&&name=explosive-shot in afara de faptul ca una e range alta e physical, aman2 isi fac scale cu ap, aman2 dau elemental damage, explosive shot e logic sa fie resisted merge cum trebuie, trebuie sa socketezi spell pen sa nu se intample asta, nu vad de ce nu ar fii envenom la fel -.


hai ca va pus capac cu asta.. acum sa vedem daca reuseste cineva sa explice de ce explosive shot poate fi rezistat iar envenom nu...

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Iinsane

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Post Posted: 22-03-2011, 15:29:58 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Vezi ca te contrazici singur:
Wickedone wrote:
Damage-ul la envenom se stackeaza cu attack power(nu cu spell power), deci este un atac MELEE in forma de nature damage. Daca envenom ar avea vreo legatura cu SPELL damage sau cu abilitate de tip SPELL, am staca SPELL power - nu-i asa ?

se cam bate cap in cap cu

Wickedone wrote:
AMS absoarbe - deci e corect, nu are legatura cu rezistenta. Dar celelalte buffuri care cresc rezistenta nu ar trebui sa scada damageul envenomului.


anyway, din moment ce Frost strike, Explosive Shot si restul abilitatilor care scaleaza cu atk power, dau dmg de tip magical dar iau dmg reduction din resistente, nu vad de ce envenom ar fi mai special

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terlyon

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Post Posted: 22-03-2011, 15:53:34 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

cizma wrote:
Alexander0810 wrote:
Doar ca si o comparatie, care este diferenta dintre https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=57993 si https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=60053 in afara de faptul ca una e range alta e physical, aman2 isi fac scale cu ap, aman2 dau elemental damage, explosive shot e logic sa fie resisted merge cum trebuie, trebuie sa socketezi spell pen sa nu se intample asta, nu vad de ce nu ar fii envenom la fel -.


hai ca va pus capac cu asta.. acum sa vedem daca reuseste cineva sa explice de ce explosive shot poate fi rezistat iar envenom nu...

HAI CA SUNTETI ******** UITATIVA LA ASTA SI ZICETI AICI DE CE NU DA REZIST
http://i52.tinypic.com/2guldt4.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/15eu5c3.jpg
Pe catacalyzm nu sa modificat absolut nimic la envenom
https://www.wow-freakz.com/spells.php?spell=32645 (wowhead link)

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Deadlybugaddictbrew

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Post Posted: 22-03-2011, 16:25:25 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Dc envenom e diferit de ce ati zis voi acolo?? Pentru ca asa a fost facut acest spell. Ghostcrawler face arene cu rogue si au vrut avantaj. Dovada lui zohl ramane cea mai buna. Degeaba faceti comparatii cand aveti screenshot. O sa revin cu print de pe blizz cu frost strike si exp shot resisted si envenom nonresisted
Edit: screnshoturi facute pe blizz pe realmul PTR:
http://img64.imageshack.us/g/wowscrnshot032211171147.jpg/



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Neverfear

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Post Posted: 22-03-2011, 19:15:07 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Banuiesc, ca ar trebui sa testeze cineva pe retail si explosive shot.
Daca este rezisted, inseamna ca avem dreptate, si ca e buguit envenom aici.
Daca nu e resisted, inseamna ca s'a modificat ceva la resist (asa cum a zis shockeru din start), si am batut campii de pomana.
Asta cred ca ar fi singura solutie, ca sa vedem daca envenom e mai cu mot decat alte phisical spells care dau magic dmg.



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Wickedone

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Post Posted: 22-03-2011, 20:01:29 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Neverfear wrote:
Banuiesc, ca ar trebui sa testeze cineva pe retail si explosive shot.
Daca este rezisted, inseamna ca avem dreptate, si ca e buguit envenom aici.
Daca nu e resisted, inseamna ca s'a modificat ceva la resist (asa cum a zis shockeru din start), si am batut campii de pomana.
Asta cred ca ar fi singura solutie, ca sa vedem daca envenom e mai cu mot decat alte phisical spells care dau magic dmg.


S-a demonstrat pe retail in postul anterior si in cel al lui zohl:
Envenom(inca o dovada ca nu are resist): http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7231/wowscrnshot032211171147.jpg
Explosive shot(test vs fire resistance): http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5435/wowscrnshot032211180818.jpg
Frost fever/frost strike(test vs frost resistance): http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4784/wowscrnshot032211182613.jpg

Iinsane wrote:
Vezi ca te contrazici singur:
Wickedone wrote:
Damage-ul la envenom se stackeaza cu attack power(nu cu spell power), deci este un atac MELEE in forma de nature damage. Daca envenom ar avea vreo legatura cu SPELL damage sau cu abilitate de tip SPELL, am staca SPELL power - nu-i asa ?

se cam bate cap in cap cu

Wickedone wrote:
AMS absoarbe - deci e corect, nu are legatura cu rezistenta. Dar celelalte buffuri care cresc rezistenta nu ar trebui sa scada damageul envenomului.


Anti magic shield e asemanator cu power word: shield, o abilitate de ABSORB a priestului. Nu are legatura cu rezistenta.

Iinsane wrote:
anyway, din moment ce Frost strike, Explosive Shot si restul abilitatilor care scaleaza cu atk power, dau dmg de tip magical dar iau dmg reduction din resistente, nu vad de ce envenom ar fi mai special


Uite ca envenom chiar e special(vezi mai sus screenshots), te rog sa iti vezi de DRUIDUL tau si de bugurile clasei TALE, nu incerca sa strici gameplay-ul la toti rougii de pe server doar ca sa iti aperi clasa oricum super over powered vs rogue.

E clar ca
Deadlybugaddictbrew wrote:
Envenom e DIFERIT de orice alt spell din wow
, iar la sistemul de rezistenta si la envenom nu s-a schimbat nimic.


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Deadlybugaddictbrew

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Post Posted: 22-03-2011, 20:23:27 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Deadlybugaddictbrew wrote:
Dc envenom e diferit de ce ati zis voi acolo?? Pentru ca asa a fost facut acest spell. Ghostcrawler face arene cu rogue si au vrut avantaj. Dovada lui zohl ramane cea mai buna. Degeaba faceti comparatii cand aveti screenshot. O sa revin cu print de pe blizz cu frost strike si exp shot resisted si envenom nonresisted
Edit: screnshoturi facute pe blizz pe realmul PTR:
http://img64.imageshack.us/g/wowscrnshot032211171147.jpg/
Let it be seen by everyone!!



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GhiciCine

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Post Posted: 23-03-2011, 02:27:22 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Intr-un fel nu ar trebuii nici Chimera Shot sa depinda de Spen ptr ca e weapon dmg in nature dmg sunt aproape pe aceeasi unda cu envenom dar n-a ...sa nu ne complicam -


http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/magtheridon/Ghicicine/simple
http://armory.freakz.ro/character-sheet.xml?r=Genesis&n=Gc
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