[FIXED] [Multiple] DoT crit snapshot warlock / spriest

[Whyplashh]

Bug description: Warlock and Shadow Priest should get crit% snapshot when applying DoTs. Shadow Priest have a fail safety so that they will have the snapshot only for the normal duration of the DoT, not when it is refreshed by Shadowy Aparition. Prior to patch 6.0.2 the damage, haste, mastery, and critical strike of your dot were those you had upon the application of the dot. So you could refresh it when UVoLS (https://www.wow-freakz.com/item_finder.php?item=94524&&name=unerring-vision-of-lei-shen ) procced and all the ticks of that dot would had a 100% critical strike change until you refreshed it. From 6.0.2 this trinket will become useless with the new dynamic DoT system.
At the moment on Freakz warlocks shadow priests moonkins and mages all have dynamic critical chance.So the problem is the dynamic crit chance.
Warlocks and Shadow Priest shouldn't have it on their dots ( but keep in mind that shadow priests have to have the fail safety ), they should snap shot crit as they do with intel, mastery, haste at the moment when they apply the dots.



Proof:
Originally Posted by Serene View Post
"Can confirm that Warlocks and Shadow Priests get crit% snapshot upon application. Boomkins and Mages don't.

Lei Shen will still be strong for Fire due to 4s being turned into 8s with Alter Time (at least on pull). Don't even *need* (obviously better) to have HU/Pyro! up when you AT it, as during the duration you have 100% crit anyway. This allows for potentially maximum-damage Combustions if you can line it up with other trinket procs; as you can get 4 Guaranteed crit Pyroblasts! off during this time.

That is where the strength for Fire will be; yes it's slightly diminished returns considering Fire is massively stacking crit anyway, but the interaction with Alter Time and Combustion still keeps it strong."


"Any reasons why the crit would be snapshotted for warlocks / shadow but not boomkins and mages? Odd behaviour...if true.
Quote Originally Posted by Dominian View Post
Do you have proof because Crit% in the game, World of Warcraft, does not snapshot for any classes. Why would a trinket make a class work 100% different from how the game has for 7 years unless it's a bug. Crit is a dynamic stat, when the buff goes away so does extra %. Haste and SP/Int are snapshot, but maybe you're thinking about the interaction they have with extending their dots?
Crit does snapshot for Warlocks; go play one and you'll see. I can't show you concrete proof that they do or don't because I'm not on PTR with the trinket and I don't have 100% crit. Warlock and Shadow playstyle revolves around getting the most out of your DoT effects, and crit% snapshot is part of the playstyle.

The reason why it doesn't apply to Boomkins or Mages is because of the effect it would have. Fire you could guarantee Combustion crits on-application and with the trinket could gain a maximum-strength Combustion into a guaranteed, full-crit Combustion. This would be OP.
Boomkins don't get affected due to the interaction DoT crits have with Starsurge. Having instant-cast Starsurge nearly always up would be a bit broken, much like Fire with constantly-critting Combust, no?"


Could you explain why Balance Druid dots function differently with respect to Crit than every other class' dots? Currently Crit updates dynamically for Balance Druids whereas other classes get snapshot values.


Good question. We decided to dig into all of the dots and found they worked pretty inconsistently. (Consistency isn't always critical because it does lead to a certain amount of ***, but too little consistency can just be confusing too.) We made a pass at all of the class dots and made them snapshot crit chance. This will have implications in any simulations out there.

However, this has some implications on the Unerring Vision of Lei Shen trinket. We’re tentatively fine with the idea of you seeing that proc go off, and reapplying DoTs which crit for their whole duration, in most cases. There’s a couple cases where those periodic crits cause other effects, which end up being very powerful. For example, a Balance Druid can now apply Moonfire and Sunfire, and pretty much chain instant Starsurges for 15 sec, many of which are extending that Moonfire and Sunfire, probably out to 20-25 sec. That’s extremely strong, but we’re going to try leaving it alone for now.

The one which is simply too strong to leave is for Shadow. For Shadow having Unerring Vision and the PvE set bonuses would mean that every SW:P tick guaranteed crits, so spawns a Shadowy Apparition, which has a 65% chance of extending SW:P and VT. And the VT ticks have a 10% chance of spawning a Shadowy Apparition as well. And both can trigger a mastery tick, both of which can also spawn another Shadowy Apparition. The net result is that the feedback loop is so strong that in attainable gear, it’s net positive, resulting in SW:P and VT lasting forever (or at least until you get very unlucky and get a long string of failed procs, which will probably take several minutes to happen).

Since 100% crit SW:P and VT that never need to be refreshed is a wee bit too strong, we’re building in a failsafe. We’re fine with you getting a normal SW:P/VT duration of all crits, but not forever. When Shadowy Apparition extends SW:P and VT, and that DoT has already lasted longer than its normal duration, it will recalculate its crit chance. The result should be that the trinket procs, you reapply SW:P/VT, and get 18/15 sec of crits, then they drop to your normal crit chance.


Links :
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/252792-ptr-class-and-set-bonus-issues-part-ii/#post2129
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1263828-5-2-Trinket-Discussion?p=20213932&&viewfull=1#post20213932

WARLOCK PROOF:












SHADOW PRIEST PROOF:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=OTAgRWKPrmg:

[odes]

Also dont forget:

Quote:

September 23 hotfix: Unerring Vision of Lei Shen now has a 40% reduced chance to activate its effect for Warlocks.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=220481/patch-5-4-hotfixes-september-23rd

Quest Objective: Spread cancer all over Freakz.
Quest Status: Quest failed

You can play the entire game from ur Garrison/SW/OG nice mmo would play again Kappa. Retail WoW 2016™

[Whyplashh]

odes wrote:

Also dont forget: Quote: September 23 hotfix: Unerring Vision of Lei Shen now has a 40% reduced chance to activate its effect for Warlocks. http://www.wowhead.com/news=220481/patch-5-4-hotfixes-september-23rd

This hotfix is already live :

Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen – 0.525 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful spells and periodic spells.
No ICD.

The proc frequency changes based on the ilvl of the trinket:

541 ilevel = 112.88% proc multiplier
535 ilevel = 106.74% proc multiplier
528 ilevel = 100.00% proc multiplier
522 ilevel = 94.56% proc multiplier
502 ilevel = 78.49% proc multiplier
463 ilevel = 54.57% proc multiplier

I have the trinket at 502 ilvl : 0.525 x 78.49% multiplier = 0.412 rppm ( http://www.wowhead.com/item=95814/unerring-vision-of-lei-shen#comments - 0.46 rppm)
For warlock 60% x 0.46 = 0.28 rppm

On my trinket it say 0.29 rppm so the nerf is on.

[odes]

Addons are coded to display that info because those were oficial numbers release by blizz, but it doesnt mean its the case here, needs to be tested.

Quest Objective: Spread cancer all over Freakz.
Quest Status: Quest failed

You can play the entire game from ur Garrison/SW/OG nice mmo would play again Kappa. Retail WoW 2016™

[hujulikes]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=OTAgRWKPrmg:



It's strange that i got only 2 ticks snapshoted.

"Since 100% crit SW:P and VT that never need to be refreshed is a wee bit too strong, we’re building in a failsafe. We’re fine with you getting a normal SW:P/VT duration of all crits, but not forever. When Shadowy Apparition extends SW:P and VT, and that DoT has already lasted longer than its normal duration, it will recalculate its crit chance. The result should be that the trinket procs, you reapply SW:P/VT, and get 18/15 sec of crits, then they drop to your normal crit chance."

[odes]

I think the shadow priest thing is gonna be tricky to implement.

Quest Objective: Spread cancer all over Freakz.
Quest Status: Quest failed

You can play the entire game from ur Garrison/SW/OG nice mmo would play again Kappa. Retail WoW 2016™

[Whyplashh]

odes wrote:

Addons are coded to display that info because those were oficial numbers release by blizz, but it doesnt mean its the case here, needs to be tested.

The info is from wowhead.com http://www.wowhead.com/item=95814/unerring-vision-of-lei-shen
and the number here and from there seems to be the same and legit, but some double checking won't hurt

and here is a screenshot with the trinket on me

[odes]

Whyplashh wrote:

odes wrote: Addons are coded to display that info because those were oficial numbers release by blizz, but it doesnt mean its the case here, needs to be tested. The info is from wowhead.com http://www.wowhead.com/item=95814/unerring-vision-of-lei-shen and the number here and from there seems to be the same and legit, but some double checking won't hurt and here is a screenshot with the trinket on me

No no, i meant it needs to be tested in-game on freakz.

Quest Objective: Spread cancer all over Freakz.
Quest Status: Quest failed

You can play the entire game from ur Garrison/SW/OG nice mmo would play again Kappa. Retail WoW 2016™

[Whyplashh]

So the problem that makes this trinket at the moment useless for the clases that have it as BiS item is the dynamic crit chance. Warlocks and Shadow Priest shouldn't have it on their dots ( but keep in mind that shadow priests have to have the fail safety ), they should snap shot crit as they do with intel, mastery, haste at the moment when they apply the dots.

@ Fhuur that it can be easy to do just asking a priest or mage to say what they see on their equiped trinket 502 ilvl ingame. As we see different numbers on the metagem probably the same will happen here.

[Whyplashh]

Edited the post, so it would be more accurate.

[mishu.cgm]

Wow, that's a lot of text, and it's a complicated situation.

Quote:

At the moment on Freakz warlocks shadow priests moonkins and mages all have dynamic critical chance.So the problem is the dynamic crit chance. Warlocks and Shadow Priest shouldn't have it on their dots ( but keep in mind that shadow priests have to have the fail safety ), they should snap shot crit as they do with intel, mastery, haste at the moment when they apply the dots.

1. Snapshotting was fixed here https://forum.wow-freakz.com/FIXED-Multiple-Dot-snapshotting-t378577.html not sure why crit chance was missed (if true). @Shocker?

2. After extended research, only the bluepost states clearly that Shadow priest have this failsafe.
All other classes seem to fully snapshot, and the nerf comes from other sources (eg. lower proc chances on trinkets).
If you have more proof on this please share.


About the fail safe. How I see it , a "good-enough" fix for it would be something like this:
- when the caster applies a dot, you snapshot his stats (including crit) AND get a timer for dot duration (full duration without any other extensions)
- if caster reapplies dot OR timer expires, re-do the snapshot thingy. This way you avoid all other OP snapshot prolonging.


Please tell me if I'm completely wrong here, because I'm not sure I understood all of it.

[Whyplashh]

mishu.cgm wrote:

Wow, that's a lot of text, and it's a complicated situation. Quote: At the moment on Freakz warlocks shadow priests moonkins and mages all have dynamic critical chance.So the problem is the dynamic crit chance. Warlocks and Shadow Priest shouldn't have it on their dots ( but keep in mind that shadow priests have to have the fail safety ), they should snap shot crit as they do with intel, mastery, haste at the moment when they apply the dots. 1. Snapshotting was fixed here https://forum.wow-freakz.com/FIXED-Multiple-Dot-snapshotting-t378577.html, not sure why crit chance was missed (if true). @Shocker? 2. After extended research, only the bluepost states clearly that Shadow priest have this failsafe. All other classes seem to fully snapshot, and the nerf comes from other sources (eg. lower proc chances on trinkets). If you have more proof on this please share. About the fail safe. How I see it , a "good-enough" fix for it would be something like this: - when the caster applies a dot, you snapshot his stats (including crit) AND get a timer for dot duration (full duration without any other extensions) - if caster reapplies dot OR timer expires, re-do the snapshot thingy. This way you avoid all other OP snapshot prolonging. Please tell me if I'm completely wrong here, because I'm not sure I understood all of it.

Well, snapshot was fixed for intel, mastery, haste. Only warlocks and shadow priest can snapshot crit, it is stated why a moonkin and a mage dont snapshot, and have dynamical crit chance. Atm all classes have dynamic crit chance, a thing that should happen from 6.0.2. I will try to dig more into this.

[Whyplashh]

So : Warlocks should snapshot crit on thier DoTs ( Corroption, Agony, Unstable Affliction, Doom, Immolate )
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1310925-LeiShen-Trinket
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1308558-is-lei-shen-trinket-any-good-playing-as-affliction
Mages should snapshot crit, but not on all their spells - Combustion is an exception, but need more information (if a mage can do some proper reseach on this it would be nice, I don't really know how exactly the class works ) :
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7923693066
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1274483-DoTs-Snapshot-and-Crit
Moonkins have dynamic crit chance
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7923693066
Shadow Priest snapshot crit and have fail safety

[Lorne]

Here's some more info about UVLS and Affliction Warlocks: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9499181905

Notable parts:

Quote:

Main thing I see that might conflict: Malefic Grasp. Sure, having a bunch of weaker DoTs critting a lot is nice, but it only benefits those dots. The crit damage doesn't affect Malefic Grasp at all unless it is cast while the buff is still up.

Quote:

With UVLS proc'ed, DoTs had a 100% crit rate. MG had a 100% crit rate while the buff was still up. After the buff faded, the procs from MG no longer had 100% crit rate, meaning both aspects of MG, the channel and the DoT procs it causes, are separate from the applied DoT's crit rate. As for MG's DoT damage being important? Well, it kind of is, since proper snap-shotting of DoTs make not only the DoTs stronger, but MG as well, which is where Wushoolay's pulls ahead. Intellect procs affect all damage, the DoTs and that strength carries over to boost MG's damage. Crit does not carry over to MG after the buff expires.

[Whyplashh]

Warlocks should snapshot crit on thier DoTs ( Corroption, Agony, Unstable Affliction, Doom, Immolate ), DoT from Malefic Grasp is dynamic.
Mages should snapshot crit, but not on all their spells - Combustion is dynamic.
Moonkins have dynamic crit chance
Shadow Priest snapshot crit and have fail safety ( they have 100% crit on DoTs for the 15 sec original duration, not for the extended duration from Shadowy Aparitions)
@Rageless @Shokeru @Madau @Dreadblade