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[Multiple][Tank] Vengeance
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kaorri

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Post Posted: 31-03-2017, 19:21:11 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Greetings,

Vengeance got a bit of a fix recently (https://forum.wow-freakz.com/FIXED-Multiple-Vengeance-vs-DoTs-and-damage-modifiers-t450779.html)
However I've done some digging and it would seem that not everything is working as intended.
Most tanks would agree with me that the amount of Vengeance we currently get is quite a bit lower that was accumulated in Retail.

I've done some digging and here are some details and examples of what Veng should look like:

https://web.archive.org/web/20120809225623/http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5889309137?page=186

This of course is prior to the nerf that got it down to 1.5 however the sources bellow confirm the formula was pretty unchanged throughout the expansion

Spoiler:




In addition, here is a 5.4 updated Guardian guide that covers the subject:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/6412404169

Spoiler:


It would seem (at least to a very novice tank) that veng ramps up slowly and it is lower that it should be.
Also, Veng gained from multiple targets is higher than what it should be at :

https://www.engadget.com/2013/08/07/patch-5-4-vengeance-changes-explained/
Spoiler:


And here is the formula taken from the class forums of mmc, which estimates the boss damage output required to generate 200k Veng (I find myself running quite bellow that number)

The formula for melee vengeance as I know it is:

newVengeance = max((0.36*newAutoAttackDamage/swing)/2,
newAutoAttackDamage*0.018+oldVengeance*vengeanceBuffRemainingTime/20)

Basically there are two formulas, one which gives you roughly x vengeance, and one which slowly builds up to 2x vengeance and holds roughly steady. Blizz has been kind enough to compute both of these formulas for us and give us whichever one comes out to a higher number in a given situation.

Spoiler:


Also here is a hotfix, confirming the above formula and explaining the Veng ramp up speed:http://mmmoc.thoorium.com/news/2956



Last edited by kaorri on 03-04-2017, 11:58:48; edited 1 time in total
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MeizNab

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Post Posted: 02-04-2017, 20:17:06 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

https://forum.wow-freakz.com/view-post-4463430.html
Nr.1 from pirinush's post doesnt work.
@blizz
https://youtube.com/watch?v=eaDl9C31-HY&t=346:


1:20-1:30

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kaorri

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Post Posted: 03-04-2017, 08:21:45 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

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MeizNab

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Post Posted: 04-04-2017, 11:29:38 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1488398-Damage-Taken-Formulas
"There's also a vengeance quick-ramp built in for basic melee attacks."(Nr.8 post by kaiadam)
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/241272-vengeance-hotfix-clarification/
You can see in the first post i've made (Video)(also check's pirinush post) that taunt doesnt give 50% vengeance+200% vengeance increase that's last 4 seconds(you can easly test this in game).
casuta Sockeru,Nexflame.



Last edited by MeizNab on 05-04-2017, 13:17:50; edited 3 times in total
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kaorri

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Post Posted: 04-04-2017, 11:41:12 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Thanks for the input.
The formula is there, and it would seem that we are missing is:
1.The estimated ''bump'' which grants you the quick ramp up
2.The tank switch veng transfer (so you don't loose aggro to the OT
3. The overall amount is lower that what it should be and magic damage does not seem to be taken in to consideration ( not sure on the latter one).
4. AOE veng is ramping up too fast and it should be nerfed overall

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Mamadhutcher

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Post Posted: 04-04-2017, 16:35:16 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

No it doesnt have any problems and it works perfectly . You go better thank god for their update cuz most tank lifes where horrific . I reported frost mages glyph bug but no one seems to care so i am posting here . Freakz Fixers do us a favor and fix glyph of icy veins . And 25% dmg done on hotter streak buff for pyroblast until we see more mages !!!

 
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+1 warn, off-topic. Next time bring arguments and keep complaints in other parts.


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MeizNab

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Post Posted: 04-04-2017, 17:00:06 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Mamadhutcher wrote:
No it doesnt have any problems and it works perfectly . You go better thank god for their update cuz most tank lifes where horrific . I reported frost mages glyph bug but no one seems to care so i am posting here . Freakz Fixers do us a favor and fix glyph of icy veins . And 25% dmg done on hotter streak buff for pyroblast until we see more mages !!!

Of course you haven't even bothered to read what i posted you just came here to trash this topic with your mage nonsense.

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kaorri

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Post Posted: 08-04-2017, 10:03:07 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Any ''blue'' input in this one?
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MeizNab

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Post Posted: 09-04-2017, 22:21:45 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JvLnWom7Mn4:


0:18 taunted the boss received 0 veng and no increase afterwards.
Daeron,Nexflame
Edit from Pirin's post 1.Cand dai taunt unui mob care este tankat de altcineva, atunci primesti 50% din vengeance-ul acelui tank si ai o rata de 200% de increase la vengeance-ul care il primesti pentru urmatoarele 4 secunde. - Nu primesti increase la vengeance si nici nu primesti 50% din vengeanceul celuilalt tank

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kaorri

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Post Posted: 15-04-2017, 10:13:55 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

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kaorri

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Post Posted: 25-04-2017, 07:16:48 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

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MeizNab

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Post Posted: 06-05-2017, 21:22:50 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

@Erudax
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MeizNab

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Post Posted: 21-05-2017, 14:13:37 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

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Erudax

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Post Posted: 25-05-2017, 20:42:40 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)


First swing grants me 16000 Vengeance
https://youtube.com/watch?v=yP0C0bQzabc:


First swing grants him 131000 Vengeance
There should be a period at the beginning of the fight in which tanks have greatly increased Vengeance gain.



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kaorri

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Post Posted: 26-05-2017, 14:25:59 | Translate post to: ... (Click for more languages)

Erudax wrote:

First swing grants me 16000 Vengeance
_snip_
First swing grants him 131000 Vengeance
There should be a period at the beginning of the fight in which tanks have greatly increased Vengeance gain.


From my original post:
Further, in order to prevent that tank from instantly pulling off of you again all taunts temporarily grant the tank a 200% bonus Vengeance modifier for 4 seconds. This is in addition to the passive +700% bonus that you receive for just being a tank. Together, this means you will generate a total of 1400% threat (7*2) when you taunt a target.

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